It’s truly remarkable how bad guard recruiting has been

[freewillie07]

You’d think Collins, a former star guard himself, would have a better hit rate. BMac aside, it has been Vassar, Ash, Brown, Greer. Buie to come. The latter two could still be good, but they’re not instant-impact freshmen.

That is not good enough. We need true guards, not just long wings.

 

[NJCat]

You’d think Collins, a former star guard himself, would have a better hit rate. BMac aside, it has been Vassar, Ash, Brown, Greer. Buie to come. The latter two could still be good, but they’re not instant-impact freshmen.

That is not good enough. We need true guards, not just long wings.

Add Gaines to your list. Tough kid, athletic, but not a Big 10 guard.

 

[Medill90]

Add Gaines to your list. Tough kid, athletic, but not a Big 10 guard.

there's a lot he can do for NU...he is a big 10 guard defensively speaking...maybe at an elite level....but is he a wizard with the ball?...no....is he going to have a shit ton of carrying calls with his bizarre dribbling where he puts his palm under the ball? yes....is is first instinct to lock in a map of the floor and what everyone is doing so he can direct and facilitate....no

He's a defensive guard who is probably more off the bench than starter.

 

[freewillie07]

Add Gaines to your list. Tough kid, athletic, but not a Big 10 guard.

I don’t consider Gaines a true guard. More of a wing.

 

[mikewebb68]

Well, we did have a highly recruited guard who decided to do something stupid at the last minute and is thus not playing for us this year. You think that affected our team just a tad? Do you think that is Collins' fault?

 

[IGNORE2]

Well, we did have a highly recruited guard who decided to do something stupid at the last minute and is thus not playing for us this year. You think that affected our team just a tad? Do you think that is Collins' fault?

In light of the consistently unused schollie, yes, because stuff happens. Should have had more bullets in his gun.

 

[mikewebb68]

In light of the consistently unused schollie, yes, because stuff happens. Should have had more bullets in his gun.

Fair enough. But still think that it was a tough, tough break that Lathon's actions occured so close to the season.

 

[NUCat320]

Even given the Lathon situation, it’s not a great indicator of program depth when a top 100, but certainly not a top 20, freshman is effectively given the keys before he’s on campus.

Stuff happens, and Greer was a nice (if not ready) consolation, but a program shouldn’t be in that position.

Strong programs don’t rely on fifth-years as anything more than program depth.

 

[mikewebb68]

Even given the Lathon situation, it’s not a great indicator of program depth when a top 100, but certainly not a top 20, freshman is effectively given the keys before he’s on campus.

Stuff happens, and Greer was a nice (if not ready) consolation, but a program shouldn’t be in that position.

Strong programs don’t rely on fifth-years as anything more than program depth.

Would have been tough to bring anyone in of quality who was guaranteed to sit behind Bmac, though. We tried with Brown, and he presumably transferred due to lack of playing time...

 

[NJCat]

You think that affected our team just a tad? Do you think that is Collins' fault?

Yes.
No.

 

[scru]

Would have been tough ti bering anyone in of quality who was guaranteed to sit beehi d Bmac, though. We tried with Brown, and he presumably transferred due to lack of playing time...

I assumed Brown decided to transfer when he saw Lathon being told that he would come in and be "the guy". Not sure it really matters, though, as Brown was not a lead guard. He was a ball dominant scorer who didn't seem capable of evolving his game to fit the system.

 

[IdahoAlum]

Well, we did have a highly recruited guard who decided to do something stupid at the last minute and is thus not playing for us this year. You think that affected our team just a tad? Do you think that is Collins' fault?

Based on his performance at UTEP so far —- 25 percent FG shooting, 1 for 10 from 3, 8-13 A to TO ratio — Lathon wasn’t going to solve this problem either, at least not right away.

 

[NJCat]

I assumed Brown decided to transfer when he saw Lathon being told that he would come in and be "the guy". Not sure it really matters, though, as Brown was not a lead guard. He was a ball dominant scorer who didn't seem capable of evolving his game to fit the system.

Brown was either hurt or deep in the Collins dog house last season. He missed 7 games and played fewer than 10 minutes in 6 of the final 9 games. I doubt the Lathon commitment was the reason he didn't play.

 

[mikewebb68]

Brown was either hurt or deep in the Collins dog house last season. He missed 7 games and played fewer than 10 minutes in 6 of the final 9 games. I doubt the Lathon commitment was the reason he didn't play.

He didn't play since he wanted to transfer, imo.

 

[Pukecat]

Add Gaines to your list. Tough kid, athletic, but not a Big 10 guard.

We took him so we wouldn’t be empty handed that year, right?

 

[Pukecat]

Based on his performance at UTEP so far —- 25 percent FG shooting, 1 for 10 from 3, 8-13 A to TO ratio — Lathon wasn’t going to solve this problem either, at least not right away.

I’m guessing he’s not with a great surrounding cast. I think it’s even tougher and he’s probably struggling in other ways if NU showed him the door.

 

[IGNORE2]

He didn't play since he wanted to transfer, imo.

Or because he was a round peg staring at a square hole.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

You’d think Collins, a former star guard himself, would have a better hit rate. BMac aside, it has been Vassar, Ash, Brown, Greer. Buie to come. The latter two could still be good, but they’re not instant-impact freshmen.

That is not good enough. We need true guards, not just long wings.

well its not easy recruiting behind a guy who is all-big ten and plays 30+ minutes a game. its just not. same reason the FB dropped off when thorson got hurt. depth is hard to accumulate when youre not a top level program. its a battle to land starters let alone back ups.

Ash by all accounts was a super tough chicago area guard from a chicago power house. we all have seen his limitations even as he is a nice player and by all accounts a great leader.

brown could of been a solid next man-up but won't get into details in his situation. he has moved on and its for the best.

also missed out on davison (wisc) and ryan (stanford). then months of planning for lathon to be denied admissions extremely late in the process.

 

[IGNORE2]

well its not easy recruiting behind a guy who is all-big ten and plays 30+ minutes a game. its just not. same reason the FB dropped off when thorson got hurt. depth is hard to accumulate when youre not a top level program. its a battle to land starters let alone back ups.

Ash by all accounts was a super tough chicago area guard from a chicago power house. we all have seen his limitations even as he is a nice player and by all accounts a great leader.

brown could of been a solid next man-up but won't get into details in his situation. he has moved on and its for the best.

also missed out on davison (wisc) and ryan (stanford). then months of planning for lathon to be denied admissions extremely late in the process.

Should be a serviceable PG and QB in every class. Should be a potential starter at least every other one.

BMac was no world beater. Not playing in the NBA. 30 minutes or not, he should not be scaring off the recruits that we want.

 

[NJCat]

Should be a serviceable PG and QB in every class.

You think there can be 4 PG's on the roster??

How many teams can carry that many? None.

13 scholarships = 5 G's, 5 F's and 3 C's on average. Of the G's no more than 3 can be PG's or you are way out of wack.

 

[freewillie07]

You think there can be 4 PG's on the roster??

How many teams can carry that many? None.

13 scholarships = 5 G's, 5 F's and 3 C's on average. Of the G's no more than 3 can be PG's or you are way out of wack.

There should be at least 5 “guards” in the sense that they have strong ballhandling skills and create their own shot. NU has simply not recruited those types of players well.

Maybe I’ll be proven wrong in the long run, but this idea of rolling out a bunch of wings doesn’t seem to be working.

 

[freewillie07]

well its not easy recruiting behind a guy who is all-big ten and plays 30+ minutes a game. its just not. same reason the FB dropped off when thorson got hurt. depth is hard to accumulate when youre not a top level program. its a battle to land starters let alone back ups.

Ash by all accounts was a super tough chicago area guard from a chicago power house. we all have seen his limitations even as he is a nice player and by all accounts a great leader.

brown could of been a solid next man-up but won't get into details in his situation. he has moved on and its for the best.

also missed out on davison (wisc) and ryan (stanford). then months of planning for lathon to be denied admissions extremely late in the process.

I get that it’s not “easy.” Recruiting is always hard, especially for NU. But Collins is paid like one of the best in the nation because we expect him to get it done. Missing on Davison and Ryan, to say nothing of a handful of others, is a recurring issue that absolutely needs to be corrected in the 2020 class.

 

[willycat]

I get that it’s not “easy.” Recruiting is always hard, especially for NU. But Collins is paid like one of the best in the nation because we expect him to get it done. Missing on Davison and Ryan, to say nothing of a handful of others, is a recurring issue that absolutely needs to be corrected in the 2020 class.

Right, Fitz must go! Oh wait, sorry, wrong board.

 

[IGNORE2]

You think there can be 4 PG's on the roster??

How many teams can carry that many? None.

13 scholarships = 5 G's, 5 F's and 3 C's on average. Of the G's no more than 3 can be PG's or you are way out of wack.

How many get hurt? Transfer out? Happier if we call it LG?

Anyway, the banter is irrelevant, as we can agree more than one on the roster would be a good start. And don’t start talking about Ash!

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

There should be at least 5 “guards” in the sense that they have strong ballhandling skills and create their own shot. NU has simply not recruited those types of players well.

Maybe I’ll be proven wrong in the long run, but this idea of rolling out a bunch of wings doesn’t seem to be working.

Only the very elite have 5 strong balling, create their own shot type.

 

[IdahoAlum]

Only the very elite have 5 strong balling, create their own shot type.

How about one?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

How about one?

How about one? The suggestion was we should have 5 which is very difficult if you aren’t Duke, Kentucky or Kansas.

 

[IdahoAlum]

How about one? The suggestion was we should have 5 which is very difficult if you aren’t Duke, Kentucky or Kansas.

I agree five is out of the question— especially when you can’t get one.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I get that it’s not “easy.” Recruiting is always hard, especially for NU. But Collins is paid like one of the best in the nation because we expect him to get it done. Missing on Davison and Ryan, to say nothing of a handful of others, is a recurring issue that absolutely needs to be corrected in the 2020 class.

Paid like one of the best in the country? I believe CCC is the LOWEST or next to lowest paid Head Coach in the Big Ten. Underwood makes nearly twice as much. Think he is struggling to recruit Bigs. What information do you have?

 

[IGNORE2]

How about one? The suggestion was we should have 5 which is very difficult if you aren’t Duke, Kentucky or Kansas.

Ok, maybe I will start the bar at any and raise it as we succeed.

 

[Walker Fan]

It’s truly remarkable that PG Charlie Moore said in the press that he wanted to play close to home and then winds up going to Cal led by Cuonzo Martin who continues to win close recruiting battle after recruiting battle and then Martin jumps ship to Missouri and Moore winds up going to Kansas to be the backup PG. (See FBI trial transcripts as to how Kansas wins recruiting battles). Moore was recruited hard by Collins but lost the battle to those schools who were located close to his ailing father. Huh? I wonder why Moore choose those schools? I am sure some can fill in the blanks.

 

[freewillie07]

Paid like one of the best in the country? I believe CCC is the LOWEST or next to lowest paid Head Coach in the Big Ten. Underwood makes nearly twice as much. Think he is struggling to recruit Bigs. What information do you have?

Um... very public information.

https://www.chicagotribune.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2Fct-northwestern-pat-fitzgerald-chris-collins-extensions-spt-0425-20170424-story.html&psig=AOvVaw2QglkvZxaOnhxjD_HZ98M_&ust=1543118997587056

“A source told the Tribune that Collins' extension runs through 2024-25 and that he got a huge raise. His new salary will be in excess of $3 million, more than Illinois is paying new coach Brad Underwood.”

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Um... very public information.

https://www.chicagotribune.com%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2Fct-northwestern-pat-fitzgerald-chris-collins-extensions-spt-0425-20170424-story.html&psig=AOvVaw2QglkvZxaOnhxjD_HZ98M_&ust=1543118997587056

“A source told the Tribune that Collins' extension runs through 2024-25 and that he got a huge raise. His new salary will be in excess of $3 million, more than Illinois is paying new coach Brad Underwood.”

https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/...aries-for-2017-season/XZiEHirOsGBJ78KBSx2Q7O/

This is dated 2018 after the Tribune article. Maybe it doesn’t factor in the extension. If so, NU bumped him up from being the lowest in the Big Ten. CCC would have a job in about 15 minutes if NU dumped him, Underwood would be back to low D1, CCC should make more.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Ok, maybe I will start the bar at any and raise it as we succeed.

Sure any seems reasonable, 5 doesn’t.

 

[IGNORE2]

https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/...aries-for-2017-season/XZiEHirOsGBJ78KBSx2Q7O/

This is dated 2018 after the Tribune article. Maybe it doesn’t factor in the extension. If so, NU bumped him up from being the lowest in the Big Ten. CCC would have a job in about 15 minutes if NU dumped him, Underwood would be back to low D1, CCC should make more.

Why?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Why?

Why what Bob? Make more than Underwood? Maybe because he actually has led a team to the NCAA tournament that had never been there before. Maybe because our recruiting is finally allowing us to have some hope for sustainability. Maybe because he seems to do things the right way as opposed to succumbing to AAU douchbags.

 

[mikewebb68]

Or because he was a round peg staring at a square hole.

Nope He just simply didn't want to sit behind McIntosh two years in a row. It was as simple as that, and was quite obvious...

 

[mikewebb68]

well its not easy recruiting behind a guy who is all-big ten and plays 30+ minutes a game. its just not. same reason the FB dropped off when thorson got hurt. depth is hard to accumulate when youre not a top level program. its a battle to land starters let alone back ups.

Ash by all accounts was a super tough chicago area guard from a chicago power house. we all have seen his limitations even as he is a nice player and by all accounts a great leader.

brown could of been a solid next man-up but won't get into details in his situation. he has moved on and its for the best.

also missed out on davison (wisc) and ryan (stanford). then months of planning for lathon to be denied admissions extremely late in the process.

And as usual, Haywood wins thread. 100% accurate take, imo.

 

[JournCat]

Point guards are not quarterbacks. There’s no reason we couldn’t play two at a time, and there were many games last year (or four years) where Mac would have benefitted from playing fewer minutes. It just seems like the demand is so high for lead guards and our academic standards so limiting that if we miss on two or three targets, we’re in huge trouble.

 

[IGNORE2]

Why what Bob? Make more than Underwood? Maybe because he actually has led a team to the NCAA tournament that had never been there before. Maybe because our recruiting is finally allowing us to have some hope for sustainability. Maybe because he seems to do things the right way as opposed to succumbing to AAU douchbags.

Well, while I know little about Underwood, he has accomplished as much as CCC in his first year in the B1G. He has four ncaa appearances, conferences championships and a pretty impressive overall HC record.

So based on his credentials, I suspect he should make as much if not more than CCC. Might be fairer to judge after he has his own players and see what has been accomplished.