But you don't know if he's the answer he may be or may not be. If fitz is smart he will have an open competition next year. Don't forget about smith also he was ranked 11th best QB in nation I think. Shaping up to be very competitive at qb spot next year
Mick McCall
- Thread starter benoitdenizetl
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But you don't know if he's the answer he may be or may not be. If fitz is smart he will have an open competition next year. Don't forget about smith also he was ranked 11th best QB in nation I think. Shaping up to be very competitive at qb spot next year
Yeah, and then we poured major recruiting resources into the DBs. Now our highest rated DB recruit can't even grace the field because we're so deep. It's a great problem to have, of course, but it shows what great recruits can do to a coach's reputation.
I don't know what Aiden Smith is at the position and time will tell. But I can tell you with absolutely certainty that Clayton should be the starter going into fall camp because there is no one on the roster that can challenge him. If they could have done, they'd already be playing. I'm sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but you'll have to trust what I've seen for myself
Given the pessimism of this thread, let's examine McCall's track record of developing quarterbacks. Here is a list of his starting quarterbacks since the Bowling Green days:
Josh Harris (drafted 2004)
Omar Jacobs (drafted 2006) - left early for NFL
Anthony Turner (moved to RB after 1 year)
Tyler Sheehan (signed as undrafted free agent w/ Houston Texans after McCall left BGSU)
C J Bacher (NU all-time great had a chance with the Bears)
Mike Kafka (drafted 2010 Philadelphia Eagles)
Dan Persa (injured achilles again during tryout with Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
Kain Colter (drafted 2014 Minnesota Vikings as WR)
Trevor Simian (drafted 2015 Denver Broncos)
Clayton Thorson (just completed 1st year as starter)
8 of 9 of the starting quarterbacks preceding Clayton under McCall's tutelage got at least a cup of tea in the NFL. The lone exception, Anthony Turner, spent only one year at QB after Omar Jacobs declared early for the NFL draft before being replaced at QB by Tyler Sheehan.
You can reasonably argue that McCall has a lot of responsibility for this year's boring offense (though a number of the teams above had very dynamic offenses), but it doesn't seem accurate at all to say that he can't develop quarterbacks!
Just stop. You can't convince this fanbase of anything using facts. Let's imagine McCall retires from coaching next month. We will all be laughing then.
You're right. Also, it doesn't matter what any of us think or what we think we know. There's one guy who decides and I'd bet all the money I have that barring injury, Clayton Thorson will be the starter opening day in 2016.
Never heard of any of those guys outside NU and I watch and study a lot of NFL. So, no, I do not see his mark on the next level. The next John Gruden, he is not. Mores like the next Mark Tresman - over hyped and overvalued.
If you haven't heard of any of those guys, then you're either 19 years old or you really haven't been "studying" football for very long. I will also add that this staff has a very good eye for talent. Some of the best talent evaluators in college football.
And the lack of WRs is? The recent lack of a good OL is? The lack of a good QB this year and likely next is? Cause I'm pretty sure the current staff recruiting a few players for each of these groups. Should we count the number of non contributors from classes 3-5 years out?
I have no idea if Green is any good, and perhaps, he can be for us what Baker Mayfield was for OU (and Texas Tech), but given that this is coming from a guy who thinks the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the north pole in a circle above it and is only a few hundred miles a way, I wouldn't sweat too much about any claims of greatness for our walk-on QB, yet.
This said, your so called fact is a bunch of hooey. Clayton Thorson may be gushing with potential and he may in fact have been our best option this year. But, his play this year was horrible, and if we have a QB who steps up and can deliver more (the bar is very low, to be honest), then we should play him. If Clayton's job is secure based on his first season and especially his last game, and not on the basis of a shit ton of improvement that needs to happen this offseason, then we are truly lost.
He may win the job again this year, but he has a LONG WAY TO GO before his job is earned.
You didn't read what I said. I said the first sentence was fact, the rest was opinion.
I'll make it easier: Clayton is the QB and will remain the QB because he won the competition fair and square. That's what i present as fact. The rest is opinion. My opinion may be hooey, but barring injury, Clayton will be our starting QB.
Honestly, I wish i could share everything I know. You guys might believe me if I did, but I just can't, for fairly obvious reasons.
Yeah, your statement is hooey. Clayton won the QB job fair and square for 2015. For 2016, the competition has not yet begun. He has done nothing to make his role as a starter guaranteed.
You wish you could share everything you know? If you can't, then you've got nothing.
In my opinion that has very little to do with talent evaluation and everything to do with talent development. Two completely different skill sets.
If a guy who started all 13 games loses his job to someone who has never started, and perhaps never played in a college game, then he must have been on drugs or partying like Johnny Football in the offseason. To believe anyone other than a healthy CT will be the opening day QB is just madness.
they addressed that situation. When Jerry was the DC, it was a disaster, so we called for him to be moved out of the position, not necessarily fired. So they moved him back to DB coach, but that wasn't going do well with him either. Again, something had to happen. It did. When Fitz hired Doc, Doc took a more active role with the safeties and this was the second tweak that allowed Jerry to finally have a unit with functionability.
Corbi saluted each of the recruiting classes. He can't have it both ways and can't pick and choose. It seems to me that Corbi really wants Springers head and wants to vindicate McCall but he doesn't want to say it. McCall has more talent on his offense than any OC before him. Most of his talent he can't seem to get on the field. Dan Vitale only played like 10 plays until late in the game because of McCall's secret strategy to surprise Tenn by moving Vault to wide receiver and parking Vitale on the bench. We shouldn't be surprised, McCall has Long, Vitale, Anderson, G. Dickerson all parked on the bench for the majority of plays. In fact most of our 4 stars and high 3 stars cant' seem to get in for plays in what is the worst offense in college football in the last 2 years. Corbi doesn't have a problem with that and claims that McCall is "Damned if he does...". Yet, all of these studs are mostly benched on a absolutely awful offense as McCall hadn't the imagination to utilize them. IMO, it's a crying shame that Long only plays a few plays a game. And having a second team all big ten TE parked on the bench for all of about 10 plays that mattered is insanity. Yet Fitz allows this. The question is, why? It is so asinine that it appears that McCall sabotaged the game, although I know he didn't. Just stupid shit.
I thinks it's about time for someone to banish himself to the desolate barrens that are the Scout message boards again
While moving Brown out of the DC role is a given, you are just making up the bit about Hank coaching safeties. While it might have appeared that way in the media guide (I don't think it does anymore), Brown coached the entirety of the defensive backs on a day to day basis from the moment Hank stepped on campus to the best of my knowledge.
Devil's Advocate time... How do we know he has the great recruits? Isn't it a bit of a "chicken and the egg" type situation?
What are you talking about? I have been pretty clear, I don't think we have a problem with recruiting talent. There is plenty of talent. We have a problem with talent development and most of the development is the responsibility of the position coaches. McCall is at the mercy of his position coaches and I think he is handicapped by two sub par position coaches. I have been pretty consistent with these comments for the last couple of years.
McCall had a clear track record of developing QBs in High School and in lower Division 1 programs like the MAC. But this is big boy league and his track record as an Offensive Coordinator indicates he petered out a long time ago. One may argue that his 2012 offense is evidence that he is at least par among his peers but that offense was only the 60th best as our defense carried us that year even if only slightly.
As far as him developing talent at QB, that is also challengable. Yes, he developed kafka but lets throw out the exception. Did he develop Colter or TS? I dont believe so because if he did develop then, then it would have naturally followed that their senior years would have shown a progression. Yet neither Colter or Siemien showed any indication of further development other than their baseline underclassman achievements. Further, there were a half dozen other qbs that came under McCalls watch, ie, Watkins, alviti, oliver, thorson, yates, yet there is no functional evidence that McCall developed any of them. All of them, even Watkins were high ranking recruits that McCall wanted. This year we had 4 qbs on the roster, including a 5th year, yet our passing offense was last except for navy air force army and one or two others.
Bottom line, there is a case against McCall and he isnt doing any favors for himself. Fitz has every right to toss him on fitz' shoulders and carry him because it was a very very good season but not great (even though i told fitz that yesterday when i shook his hand).
And it can be said that McCall can right the ship.....i just think it is very risky to keep him
He isnt utilizing the talent given to him and his offense has become unimaginable and very predictable.
Fitz threw out the grade book. The only grading that im aware of is Turk's. My understanding is the great Turk only grades by productivity. How hot someone's wife is has nothing to do with it.
Plenty of talent? The DL and DBs, yeah, I agree. On offense, it's Jackson and a lot of potential with Thorson. There are no All-Big Ten OL or WR on our roster. If it's entirely due to the position coaches, then I would have expected to have seen a lot more rave reviews of these recruits during their first camp at NU. You're basically saying that the recruits are really good but the coaches are wasting them.
You seem to have a hard time distinguishing between talent and production. Our WR groups over the last several years have had as much talent as any that we have ever had at Northwestern. Heck, a few years ago (I don't remember exactly which year) our WR group was stacked and ranked in the pre season as the best WR group in the Big Ten. It was the year we had Rashad Lawrence, Christian Jones, Tony Jones, Kyle Prater and others. What happened? They stunk up the joint under Springer's tutelage. What about this year's group? Christian Jones was a 4 star rated WR who had shown signs of stardom early in his career. This year he had trouble even catching the most basic pass. Mike McHugh was a 6"2 200lb kid who ran a 4.4 at our summer camp and put on such a good show that Fitz offered him a scholarship on the spot. Under Springer's tutelage I saw no meaningful development in McHugh from his senior year in HS to his senior year in college. Shuler, another 4 star who did not improve one bit from the moment he stepped on campus to the last game. You still haven't addressed the most damning evidence of all. Why is it that under our previous WR coach we had numerous (I can real off at least 15 guys) minimally recruited WRs (and QBs for that matter) who after sitting and learning the position for a couple years turned into highly productive Big Ten WRs? All those guys played under the same system as Mick McCall was also the OC. As soon as Kevin Johns left and Springer came on board, that all stopped. Why is that? Please explain.
As
It is the job of the position coaches to teach technique and develop talent at their respective position groups, not the OC.
It is the job of the position coaches to teach technique and develop talent at their respective position groups, not the OC.
So, as stated, they have all failed in evaluation, recruiting, developing and planning. Even if you don't pin the lack of developing WRs on McCall, which I do, then he has failed miserably with a string of highly recruited QBs.
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