Offense: Has To Be Better

[GOUNUII]

Yes there were silly calls for Thorson to be benched and those OL men that are so fondly remembered today took their fair share of abuse too. A lot of people like to blame the players, when the major problem with the dysfunction of the offense is clear as day.

I see it as clear as day as well. We might have 2 or 3 players on offense that could start for Indiana or Minnesota or Illinois. The emphasis is on the word “ might. “ We might not have any. The offensive talent disparity between NU and BIG West teams with no good reason to be better than NU on offense is stunning.

With just an average BIG West roster on offense we could be 6-1. No worse than 4-3 going into the softer part of our schedule.

GOUNUII

 

[ricko654321]

I found it interesting that Fitz said almost exactly the same thing in his Iowa post game press conference in response to a question about Clayton. Clayton was pretty damn good for NU. It’s unfortunate that some can’t give him his just due to this day and others weren’t able to recognize how important he was to the team’s success while he was here.

I think Clayton was pretty good but far from great, and he did not develop as much as I had hoped during his time here (possibly due to play calling not putting him in situations to succeed). His early struggles in the NFL are some evidence of that (that he was far from great), though likely insufficient sample size to be conclusive. I also think that talking about Clayton right now is sort of missing the point as it relates to our current blindingly bad offense in 2019, which CT is neither responsible for nor able to prevent in any way. It's just a red herring. Saying that CT was so great that he got our offense to what, like 100th out of 130 last year isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of our offensive braintrust.

 

[freewillie07]

I see it as clear as day as well. We might have 2 or 3 players on offense that could start for Indiana or Minnesota or Illinois. The emphasis is on the word “ might. “ We might not have any. The offensive talent disparity between NU and BIG West teams with no good reason to be better than NU on offense is stunning.

With just an average BIG West roster on offense we could be 6-1. No worse than 4-3 going into the softer part of our schedule.

GOUNUII

Why do you think there is offensive talent disparity? I genuinely don’t remember where you stand on that. Know there’s the debate about moving all the good guys over to defense, etc.

 

[Wildcatfootball12]

I found it interesting that Fitz said almost exactly the same thing in his Iowa post game press conference in response to a question about Clayton. Clayton was pretty damn good for NU. It’s unfortunate that some can’t give him his just due to this day and others weren’t able to recognize how important he was to the team’s success while he was here.

Your point is well taken, but "pretty darn good" is a subjective measure

Clayton was never an all big ten type QB despite having a legit NFL RB, an NFL WR one year (his best season, hands down) and an o-line...well, o-line not so good. But the o-line always improved over the course of the year.

Going back to the Persa thing, I just want to highlight that you are using "Heisman-worthy" subjectively. My research could be "Nobel-worthy" but unless I find myself in Sweden one day, I objectively am not.

I think both you and I agree that Persa had the potential to be an All-American level player (which again, he was not), but was limited by one of two things: 1) the players around him or 2) the scheme. I think it is #2 primarily, where as you think it is #1 (don't want to put words in your mouth).

But Trevor Siemian (a literal NFL start) SUCKED SO BAD at Northwestern and it was not the players around him, those teams had some serious talent (IMO). Thorson also did not play at the level we wanted him to and again, IMO, was limited by scheme. We are frustrated because we think Thorson, a hard working, 6'4" QB with a decent arm and some legs should have been an All-Big Ten player, but he wasn't and someone needs to be blame for that. And frankly, I don't think it's him

I also find it concerning that all of training camp there was word coming from the Eagles camp that Thorson was "raw". How the eff does that happen? How can his QB coach not have done his job in 5 years? There were some similar concerns re: Kafka (I'm an Eagles fan) when he was drafted.

There is a common denominator here and it's McCall.

 

[corbi296]

Your point is well taken, but "pretty darn good" is a subjective measure

Clayton was never an all big ten type QB despite having a legit NFL RB, an NFL WR one year (his best season, hands down) and an o-line...well, o-line not so good. But the o-line always improved over the course of the year.

Going back to the Persa thing, I just want to highlight that you are using "Heisman-worthy" subjectively. My research could be "Nobel-worthy" but unless I find myself in Sweden one day, I objectively am not.

I think both you and I agree that Persa had the potential to be an All-American level player (which again, he was not), but was limited by one of two things: 1) the players around him or 2) the scheme. I think it is #2 primarily, where as you think it is #1 (don't want to put words in your mouth).

But Trevor Siemian (a literal NFL start) SUCKED SO BAD at Northwestern and it was not the players around him, those teams had some serious talent (IMO). Thorson also did not play at the level we wanted him to and again, IMO, was limited by scheme. We are frustrated because we think Thorson, a hard working, 6'4" QB with a decent arm and some legs should have been an All-Big Ten player, but he wasn't and someone needs to be blame for that. And frankly, I don't think it's him

I also find it concerning that all of training camp there was word coming from the Eagles camp that Thorson was "raw". How the eff does that happen? How can his QB coach not have done his job in 5 years? There were some similar concerns re: Kafka (I'm an Eagles fan) when he was drafted.

There is a common denominator here and it's McCall.

I think that’s a fair way to describe our difference of opinion.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

Think about all the geniuses on this board who wanted Clayton benched at various point of his career. It couldn’t be any worse, they exclaimed. Yes, it could be much worse and now we are seeing it unfortunately.

He wasnt that good for a 5th year. If you want to crown him after comparing him to smith then crown him but our offense blowed last year with him at #103 out of 130.
Did he finish in the top 10 of 14 QBs in any category?

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

McCall never developed any QBs after we installed the power run O.
And he has had many 4 and 5 star qbs who ended as a complete disaster.
HJ 5 star
Alviti 4 star
CT 4 star
A Smith rated #13th best in nation.
Oliver was a 3 star without a clue.
Marty "needs work"

 

[corbi296]

He wasnt that good for a 5th year. If you want to crown him after comparing him to smith then crown him but our offense blowed last year with him at #103 out of 130.
Did he finish in the top 10 of 14 QBs in any category?

Shockingly I disagree. The guy was the all time winning QB at NU, led us to our First Big Ten West title, was probably the single most irreplaceable player on last year’s team as evidenced by the drop off since he’s left and you still have guys on this board citing offensive statistics to criticize him. The ONLY fair way to judge Thorson’s performance at NU is to look at how many games he won and how far we have fallen off without him. I am sure if I go I’ll find a post from you calling for Thorson’s benching at some point during his career. Absolute BS

 

[Pukecat]

Shockingly I disagree. The guy was the all time winning QB at NU, led us to our First Big Ten West title, was probably the single most irreplaceable player on last year’s team as evidenced by the drop off since he’s left and you still have guys on this board citing offensive statistics to criticize him. The ONLY fair way to judge Thorson’s performance at NU is to look at how many games he won and how far we have fallen off without him. I am sure if I go I’ll find a post from you calling for Thorson’s benching at some point during his career. Absolute BS

"the single most irreplaceable player on last year’s team" seems to be a tie between Doles, Thorson, Thompson, Hall and Hartage. If we had any one of those guys in certain games, who knows. The defense has been OK but not creating turnovers. The OL has been atrocious. The QB position has been a joke.

You're crazy if you think "ONLY fair way to judge Thorson’s performance at NU is to look at how many games he won." Have you ever heard of the passer rating, completion percentage, passing interceptions, etc?

Wins are not the only fair way. In fact they're completely unfair -- to the rest of the team. Wins are a team stat, not an individual stat.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I found it interesting that Fitz said almost exactly the same thing in his Iowa post game press conference in response to a question about Clayton. Clayton was pretty damn good for NU. It’s unfortunate that some can’t give him his just due to this day and others weren’t able to recognize how important he was to the team’s success while he was here.

Or maybe, we really just weren't that good last year (or any year under McCall) and we just are even worse this year. In other words, we consistently have sucked, but McCall had to show us that we could suck even more. Thanks Mick!

 

[EvanstonCat]

"the single most irreplaceable player on last year’s team" seems to be a tie between Doles, Thorson, Thompson, Hall and Hartage. If we had any one of those guys in certain games, who knows. The defense has been OK but not creating turnovers. The OL has been atrocious. The QB position has been a joke.

You're crazy if you think "ONLY fair way to judge Thorson’s performance at NU is to look at how many games he won." Have you ever heard of the passer rating, completion percentage, passing interceptions, etc?

Wins are not the only fair way. In fact they're completely unfair -- to the rest of the team. Wins are a team stat, not an individual stat.

And the Bears won the Superbowl back in the day because Jim McMahon was an incredibly gifted QB. He was much better than Dan Marino because Marino never could win the Superbowl.

/s

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

And the Bears won the Superbowl back in the day because Jim McMahon was an incredibly gifted QB. He was much better than Dan Marino because Marino never could win the Superbowl.

/s

McMahon was a very good QB during the Super Bowl season.