OT: Bears

[Hungry Jack]

Getting fleeced by the Rams.

The Rams are playing with ferocity, and the Bears have been on their heels since the opening drive. The Rams look faster, stronger, and fitter.

But what bothers me most is that our defense was clearly not prepared for the Rams’ offensive scheme. That’s on Nagy and Pagano.

And without an overhaul of the offensive line, the Bears are not going to win against good teams.

 

[corbi296]

Getting fleeced by the Rams.

The Rams are playing with ferocity, and the Bears have been on their heels since the opening drive. The Rams look faster, stronger, and fitter.

But what bothers me most is that our defense was clearly not prepared for the Rams’ offensive scheme. That’s on Nagy and Pagano.

And without an overhaul of the offensive line, the Bears are not going to win against good teams.

The only thing the Rams have on the Bears is a good coaching staff. Put Mcvay and his staff on the Bears sideline and the Bears would be winning this game.

 

[catfans5]

The only thing the Rams have on the Bears is a good coaching staff. Put Mcvay and his staff on the Bears sideline and the Bears would be winning this game.

The Bears' defensive coordinator is pretty good.

I agree with you otherwise. Not impressed by Nagy.

 

[corbi296]

The Bears' defensive coordinator is pretty good.

I agree with you otherwise. Not impressed by Nagy.

Have you been watching this season? Pagano can’t hold Fangio’s jock strap. The Bears have lost outside contain on the same jet sweeps and bootlegs off of jet sweeps all night an no adjustments from Pagano. Brandon Staley, the Rams DC and former Bears OLb coach has called a much better game tonight with much less talent than Pagano has.

 

[Hungry Jack]

The only thing the Rams have on the Bears is a good coaching staff. Put Mcvay and his staff on the Bears sideline and the Bears would be winning this game.

No.

The Rams have better personnel on offense.

But I was never sold on Pagano either.

 

[hdhntr1]

The only thing the Rams have on the Bears is a good coaching staff. Put Mcvay and his staff on the Bears sideline and the Bears would be winning this game.

I have to put a lot of this on Pace. He gave up so much in moving up for Trabisky and a couple other moves that we Bears are missing a lot of pieces. Especially on the OL. You can't start drafting in the 3rd round year after year and compete for long. Bears have gotten old on D and only a matter of time before they were going to start to break down. Look at that OL. They have averaged less than 50 ypg rushing for the last 4 games. Pressure on Foles. How many times was he hit? I mean Floyd had two sacks and 3 knockdowns himself

Not saying the coaching staff does not have to take a fair amount of blame but a little hard to continue to play at high level shorthanded

 

[catfans5]

Have you been watching this season? Pagano can’t hold Fangio’s jock strap. The Bears have lost outside contain on the same jet sweeps and bootlegs off of jet sweeps all night an no adjustments from Pagano. Brandon Staley, the Rams DC and former Bears OLb coach has called a much better game tonight with much less talent than Pagano has.

I said "pretty good" about Pagano. Not Fangio level. Mingo lost the edge many times. He did the same thing last week. Not too much to dispute your contentions.

 

[corbi296]

No.

The Rams have better personnel on offense.

But I was never sold on Pagano either.

They have modestly better personnel on offense and we have dramatically better personnel on defense. That does not account for the lopsided result. Nagy and staff as a whole are well below average. I am convinced if you just flipped coaching staffs last night the result would have been different.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I have to put a lot of this on Pace. He gave up so much in moving up for Trabisky and a couple other moves that we Bears are missing a lot of pieces. Especially on the OL. You can't start drafting in the 3rd round year after year and compete for long. Bears have gotten old on D and only a matter of time before they were going to start to break down. Look at that OL. They have averaged less than 50 ypg rushing for the last 4 games. Pressure on Foles. How many times was he hit? I mean Floyd had two sacks and 3 knockdowns himself

Pace is a problem.

 

[Alvious]

Bears got exposed, plain and simple.

 

[corbi296]

Pace is a problem.

Pace is not THE problem. Yes, his first round pick track record is not good but he has hit big time on several lower round picks like Eddie Jackson, Traik Cohen, Roy Robertson Harris, Darnell Mooney, Bilal Nichols. This most recent draft looks outstanding and he has had several very shrewd free agency signings. They signed Akiem Hicks as a FA from New England for chump change and now he is one of the top DL in the league. The Khalil Mack trade was outstanding value. Bottom line, the GMs job is to put talent on the field and when I look at the Bears I see at least half a dozen pro bowlers and one of the top 5-10 talented rosters in the league, regardless of how that talent was acquired. The main problem with the Bears is Nagy and his staff. With the exception of a couple very good position coaches like Jeff Rodgers, Nagy and staff have shown an inability to properly identify, develop and deploy talent as well as being very poor at game planning, play calling and time management. Why the hell is Tedd Ginn still returning punts for the Bears? Why is Rashard Coward stating over Alex Bars? Why do we waste time outs with 5 seconds left before the two minute warning and don't call a timeout before the half to force the Rams to properly execute a punt? Why do we consistently pass the ball and stop the clock at the end of games where we are leading when we should be focused on running the clock down? Why did we not make an in game adjustment last night when the Rams offense was consistently getting the edge on us by repeatedly running jet sweeps and bootlegs off of jet sweeps? Why is Nick Foles telling Brian Griese from ESPN that there are many times when he gets a play call in that he already knows the play call won't work because he won't have enough time to execute the play?

 

[NUCat320]

Pace is not THE problem. Yes, his first round pick track record is not good but he has hit big time on several lower round picks like Eddie Jackson, Traik Cohen, Roy Robertson Harris, Darnell Mooney, Bilal Nichols. This most recent draft looks outstanding and he has had several very shrewd free agency signings. They signed Akiem Hicks as a FA from New England for chump change and now he is one of the top DL in the league. The Khalil Mack trade was outstanding value. Bottom line, the GMs job is to put talent on the field and when I look at the Bears I see at least half a dozen pro bowlers and one of the top 5-10 talented rosters in the league, regardless of how that talent was acquired. The main problem with the Bears is Nagy and his staff. With the exception of a couple very good position coaches like Jeff Rodgers, Nagy and staff have shown an inability to properly identify, develop and deploy talent as well as being very poor at game planning, play calling and time management. Why the hell is Tedd Ginn still returning punts for the Bears? Why is Rashard Coward stating over Alex Bars? Why do we waste time outs with 5 seconds left before the two minute warning and don't call a timeout before the half to force the Rams to properly execute a punt? Why do we consistently pass the ball and stop the clock at the end of games where we are leading when we should be focused on running the clock down? Why did we not make an in game adjustment last night when the Rams offense was consistently getting the edge on us by repeatedly running jet sweeps and bootlegs off of jet sweeps? Why is Nick Foles telling Brian Griese from ESPN that there are many times when he gets a play call in that he already knows the play call won't work because he won't have enough time to execute the play?

But also, why is the quarterback Nick Foles or Mitchell Trubisky? If you can’t identify quarterbacks, nothing else matters.

 

[corbi296]

But also, why is the quarterback Nick Foles or Mitchell Trubisky? If you can’t identify quarterbacks, nothing else matters.

Nick Foles is Nagy’s guy. Just a reminder, Nick Foles was good enough to lead Philly to a Super Bowl win just two years ago. What did that Philly team have that this Bears team does not? Not much in my opinion.

 

[Jonny2TheP]

Pace is not THE problem. Yes, his first round pick track record is not good but he has hit big time on several lower round picks like Eddie Jackson, Traik Cohen, Roy Robertson Harris, Darnell Mooney, Bilal Nichols. This most recent draft looks outstanding and he has had several very shrewd free agency signings. They signed Akiem Hicks as a FA from New England for chump change and now he is one of the top DL in the league. The Khalil Mack trade was outstanding value. Bottom line, the GMs job is to put talent on the field and when I look at the Bears I see at least half a dozen pro bowlers and one of the top 5-10 talented rosters in the league, regardless of how that talent was acquired. The main problem with the Bears is Nagy and his staff. With the exception of a couple very good position coaches like Jeff Rodgers, Nagy and staff have shown an inability to properly identify, develop and deploy talent as well as being very poor at game planning, play calling and time management. Why the hell is Tedd Ginn still returning punts for the Bears? Why is Rashard Coward stating over Alex Bars? Why do we waste time outs with 5 seconds left before the two minute warning and don't call a timeout before the half to force the Rams to properly execute a punt? Why do we consistently pass the ball and stop the clock at the end of games where we are leading when we should be focused on running the clock down? Why did we not make an in game adjustment last night when the Rams offense was consistently getting the edge on us by repeatedly running jet sweeps and bootlegs off of jet sweeps? Why is Nick Foles telling Brian Griese from ESPN that there are many times when he gets a play call in that he already knows the play call won't work because he won't have enough time to execute the play?

Yeah, I agree with most of this. As you point out, Pace has had several great draft picks in the middle rounds and some really good free agent signings. You point out all of the good moves he has made above, and make no mistake, there have been a lot of good ones.

Unfortunately, he has not been able to figure out the QB position, which is by far the most important position in football...though I will say I am one of probably a small few that still hasn't given up on Trubisky. I will clarify that I think he may need a new start somewhere else or a new OC to work with that is not Nagy, but I see enough there with him that I don't think he's a lost cause yet. But signing Mike Glennon to a $16M/1 year contract? What? Also, despite looking pretty mediocre so far, Foles wasn't a bad pick up, but did you really have to give up a fourth rounder and guarantee him money through 2022?

I will give him credit for being bold on trying to fill the QB position. But giving up what he did to trade up one spot for Trubisky, the Glennon signing, and what he gave up to get Foles...it's a lot for a position that is still very much in flux. For him, the reality is that no matter what he does with the rest of the roster, none of it really matters all that much if he can't figure out the QB position.

 

[Hungry Jack]

I think the biggest issue now is that offensive line. It’s really quite bad.

 

[NUCat320]

Yeah, I agree with most of this. As you point out, Pace has had several great draft picks in the middle rounds and some really good free agent signings. You point out all of the good moves he has made above, and make no mistake, there have been a lot of good ones.

Unfortunately, he has not been able to figure out the QB position, which is by far the most important position in football...though I will say I am one of probably a small few that still hasn't given up on Trubisky. I will clarify that I think he may need a new start somewhere else or a new OC to work with that is not Nagy, but I see enough there with him that I don't think he's a lost cause yet. But signing Mike Glennon to a $16M/1 year contract? What? Also, despite looking pretty mediocre so far, Foles wasn't a bad pick up, but did you really have to give up a fourth rounder and guarantee him money through 2022?

I will give him credit for being bold on trying to fill the QB position. But giving up what he did to trade up one spot for Trubisky, the Glennon signing, and what he gave up to get Foles...it's a lot for a position that is still very much in flux. For him, the reality is that no matter what he does with the rest of the roster, none of it really matters all that much if he can't figure out the QB position.

Good quarterbacks simply don’t leave. They keep getting paid more and more by the team that drafted them. If you miss on your quarterback, someone else will get to do better four or five years later. Them’s the facts.

 

[corbi296]

Yeah, I agree with most of this. As you point out, Pace has had several great draft picks in the middle rounds and some really good free agent signings. You point out all of the good moves he has made above, and make no mistake, there have been a lot of good ones.

Unfortunately, he has not been able to figure out the QB position, which is by far the most important position in football...though I will say I am one of probably a small few that still hasn't given up on Trubisky. I will clarify that I think he may need a new start somewhere else or a new OC to work with that is not Nagy, but I see enough there with him that I don't think he's a lost cause yet. But signing Mike Glennon to a $16M/1 year contract? What? Also, despite looking pretty mediocre so far, Foles wasn't a bad pick up, but did you really have to give up a fourth rounder and guarantee him money through 2022?

I will give him credit for being bold on trying to fill the QB position. But giving up what he did to trade up one spot for Trubisky, the Glennon signing, and what he gave up to get Foles...it's a lot for a position that is still very much in flux. For him, the reality is that no matter what he does with the rest of the roster, none of it really matters all that much if he can't figure out the QB position.

A lot of people harp on Glennon but that didn’t bother me. Glendon was a stop gap contingency signing in case they did not land a QB in the upcoming draft. Did he pay him too much? Probably. As far as Foles is concerned, again, I think it was the right move to trade for him because that was the only way they could assure themselves of getting him under a restructured contract they could afford. Could he have given up less that a 4th rounder? Probably. The common theme is that Pace is willing to overpay to make sure he lands the guy he targets, especially at QB. That kind of decisiveness and conviction are not characteristics I’ll ever criticize a GM for even if those decisions end up not working out. Lastly, regarding Foles, I want to remind people this guy was good enough to win a Super Bowl with Philly just two years ago. What did Philly have that the Bears don’t? Right now my feeling is that the best answer to that question is a good coaching staff.

 

[Jonny2TheP]

A lot of people harp on Glennon but that didn’t bother me. Glendon was a stop gap contingency signing in case they did not land a QB in the upcoming draft. Did he pay him too much? Probably. As far as Foles is concerned, again, I think it was the right move to trade for him because that was the only way they could assure themselves of getting him under a restructured contract they could afford. Could he have given up less that a 4th rounder? Probably. The common theme is that Pace is willing to overpay to make sure he lands the guy he targets, especially at QB. That kind of decisiveness and conviction are not characteristics I’ll ever criticize a GM for even if those decisions end up not working out. Lastly, regarding Foles, I want to remind people this guy was good enough to win a Super Bowl with Philly just two years ago. What did Philly have that the Bears don’t? Right now my feeling is that the best answer to that question is a good coaching staff.

Yep, I agree. As I said, I will give him credit for his boldness in trying to fill the QB position. I said the day he drafted Trubisky that no matter what else he did, he was tying himself to Trubisky's success, and that's pretty much how it has played out. It's made it worse for Pace that Mahomes and Watson came out of that same draft after Trubisky did. I am not saying anyone thought the Bears should take either of those guys at #3 (eventually #2) at the time, but both those guys went later in the 1st round and have been more successful than Trubisky. Whether it's fair or not, people are going to hold that against Pace.

As NUCat320 pointed out, good QB's almost always come to a team through the draft. Not always, but the vast majority of the time. If you miss on your early 1st round QB pick, especially one you traded up for, you better hope that guy is successful. To this point, that hasn't worked for the Bears. While I don't know the answer, I am in agreement that I think the biggest issue is the coaching staff.

 

[corbi296]

Yep, I agree. As I said, I will give him credit for his boldness in trying to fill the QB position. I said the day he drafted Trubisky that no matter what else he did, he was tying himself to Trubisky's success, and that's pretty much how it has played out. It's made it worse for Pace that Mahomes and Watson came out of that same draft after Trubisky did. I am not saying anyone thought the Bears should take either of those guys at #3 (eventually #2) at the time, but both those guys went later in the 1st round and have been more successful than Trubisky. Whether it's fair or not, people are going to hold that against Pace.

As NUCat320 pointed out, good QB's almost always come to a team through the draft. Not always, but the vast majority of the time. If you miss on your early 1st round QB pick, especially one you traded up for, you better hope that guy is successful. To this point, that hasn't worked for the Bears. While I don't know the answer, I am in agreement that I think the biggest issue is the coaching staff.

I wish the Bears could hit on a Qb draft pick but it hasn’t happened. When you think of elite, difference making QBs, there are only a handful in the league at any one point in time. Those are hard to come by but a team can be successful with an efficient game manager at QB if the talent around him is top notch, including the coaching staff. Look at the Titans going to the Super Bowl last year with a reject QB they picked up on waivers. It can be done and we know Foles is capable of leading a team to the Super Bowl if the other pieces are in place. Right now the coaching staff is the biggest handicap the Bears have.

 

[hdhntr1]

Pace is not THE problem. Yes, his first round pick track record is not good but he has hit big time on several lower round picks like Eddie Jackson, Traik Cohen, Roy Robertson Harris, Darnell Mooney, Bilal Nichols. This most recent draft looks outstanding and he has had several very shrewd free agency signings. They signed Akiem Hicks as a FA from New England for chump change and now he is one of the top DL in the league. The Khalil Mack trade was outstanding value. Bottom line, the GMs job is to put talent on the field and when I look at the Bears I see at least half a dozen pro bowlers and one of the top 5-10 talented rosters in the league, regardless of how that talent was acquired. The main problem with the Bears is Nagy and his staff. With the exception of a couple very good position coaches like Jeff Rodgers, Nagy and staff have shown an inability to properly identify, develop and deploy talent as well as being very poor at game planning, play calling and time management. Why the hell is Tedd Ginn still returning punts for the Bears? Why is Rashard Coward stating over Alex Bars? Why do we waste time outs with 5 seconds left before the two minute warning and don't call a timeout before the half to force the Rams to properly execute a punt? Why do we consistently pass the ball and stop the clock at the end of games where we are leading when we should be focused on running the clock down? Why did we not make an in game adjustment last night when the Rams offense was consistently getting the edge on us by repeatedly running jet sweeps and bootlegs off of jet sweeps? Why is Nick Foles telling Brian Griese from ESPN that there are many times when he gets a play call in that he already knows the play call won't work because he won't have enough time to execute the play?

It is fine that he has done well in lower rounds. But when you have limited draft picks, especially at the top year after year... Don't really see that talent on O. OL crap. And didn't Pace hire Nagy and staff?

 

[corbi296]

It is fine that he has done well in lower rounds. But when you have limited draft picks, especially at the top year after year... Don't really see that talent on O. OL crap. And didn't Pace hire Nagy and staff?

Yes. His decision to hire Nagy is the biggest mistake he has made in my opinion.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Pace is not THE problem. Yes, his first round pick track record is not good but he has hit big time on several lower round picks like Eddie Jackson, Traik Cohen, Roy Robertson Harris, Darnell Mooney, Bilal Nichols. This most recent draft looks outstanding and he has had several very shrewd free agency signings. They signed Akiem Hicks as a FA from New England for chump change and now he is one of the top DL in the league. The Khalil Mack trade was outstanding value. Bottom line, the GMs job is to put talent on the field and when I look at the Bears I see at least half a dozen pro bowlers and one of the top 5-10 talented rosters in the league, regardless of how that talent was acquired. The main problem with the Bears is Nagy and his staff. With the exception of a couple very good position coaches like Jeff Rodgers, Nagy and staff have shown an inability to properly identify, develop and deploy talent as well as being very poor at game planning, play calling and time management. Why the hell is Tedd Ginn still returning punts for the Bears? Why is Rashard Coward stating over Alex Bars? Why do we waste time outs with 5 seconds left before the two minute warning and don't call a timeout before the half to force the Rams to properly execute a punt? Why do we consistently pass the ball and stop the clock at the end of games where we are leading when we should be focused on running the clock down? Why did we not make an in game adjustment last night when the Rams offense was consistently getting the edge on us by repeatedly running jet sweeps and bootlegs off of jet sweeps? Why is Nick Foles telling Brian Griese from ESPN that there are many times when he gets a play call in that he already knows the play call won't work because he won't have enough time to execute the play?

How can you possibly absolve Pace of his mid-steps? There are so many they are too numerous to list. The two biggest decisions ( and by a lot) he has completely botched. Head Coach was hired by Pace. His responsibility. QB was drafted second and right now isn’t even a starter being tossed to the bench by a career back up. Did Pace even interview Deshaun Watson? Inexcusable lack of due diligence. To make matters worse he got fleeced by John Lynch to move up 1 whole spot. I guess it is Ok to keep trading your first round picks because he sure as heck can’t draft in that spot. To point out home runs like Jackson and ignoring strike outs like White points a blue and orange colored One sided picture of his performance. He flat out is NOT one if the better drafters in the league and if you review his entire body of work, you will see there are far more busts than stars.


How about the OL that he has on the field? Vince Lombardi couldn’t generate a strong offense with that hot mess. Who signs the players? Obvious problem area in off season wasn’t addressed properly. Now a injury exposes the problem. Play with fire, you’ll get burned.

There are two good GM’s in Chicago professional sports and Pace is NOT one of them.

 

[corbi296]

How can you possibly absolve Pace of his mid-steps? There are so many they are too numerous to list. The two biggest decisions ( and by a lot) he has completely botched. Head Coach was hired by Pace. His responsibility. QB was drafted second and right now isn’t even a starter being tossed to the bench by a career back up. Did Pace even interview Deshaun Watson? Inexcusable lack of due diligence. To make matters worse he got fleeced by John Lynch to move up 1 whole spot. I guess it is Ok to keep trading your first round picks because he sure as heck can’t draft in that spot. To point out home runs like Jackson and ignoring strike outs like White points a blue and orange colored One sided picture of his performance. He flat out is NOT one if the better drafters in the league and if you review his entire body of work, you will see there are far more busts than stars.


How about the OL that he has on the field? Vince Lombardi couldn’t generate a strong offense with that hot mess. Who signs the players? Obvious problem area in off season wasn’t addressed properly. Now a injury exposes the problem. Play with fire, you’ll get burned.

There are two good GM’s in Chicago professional sports and Pace is NOT one of them.

If you bothered reading my posts you'll see I don't absolve him but I also acknowledge that he has overcome his player personnel mistakes by making as many brilliant picks/signings as he has misses. Besides, my post was about what is wrong with the Bears on the field. When I look at the team the Bears put on the field, I don't see a lack of talent, I see a lot of talent and that is ultimately the GM's job, to put talent on the field. The biggest problem is the head coach and the majority of his staff that are incapable of developing talent, deploying talent and putting together a game plan that puts the team in the best position to win. Pace's biggest mistake was his decision to hire Matt Nagy.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

If you bothered reading my posts you'll see I don't absolve him but I also acknowledge that he has overcome his player personnel mistakes by making as many brilliant picks/signings as he has misses. Besides, my post was about what is wrong with the Bears on the field. When I look at the team the Bears put on the field, I don't see a lack of talent, I see a lot of talent and that is ultimately the GM's job, to put talent on the field. The biggest problem is the head coach and the majority of his staff that are incapable of developing talent, deploying talent and putting together a game plan that puts the team in the best position to win. Pace's biggest mistake was his decision to hire Matt Nagy.

If you think he has made as many brilliant picks/signings as he has had misses, I would kindly ask you to go back and review his record. His mistakes are colossal and citing Jackson every post doesn’t make them go away.

Sorry, but the buck stops at that top of the food chain. If you most important hire is head coach and he fails, how can he be viewed as doing his job. It’s easy to blame Nagy for everything because he hasn’t done a good job, but there no way on God’s green Earth that Offense has a lot of talent. In fact it is the opposite. There are three phases of the game and at least one has less than average league talent.

BTW , I do read your posts and know exactly where you stand on Pace, Nagy, Schwarber, the White Sox starting staff, McCall, Mertz, and much more.

 

[corbi296]

If you think he has made as many brilliant picks/signings as he has had misses, I would kindly ask you to go back and review his record. His mistakes are colossal and citing Jackson every post doesn’t make them go away.

Sorry, but the buck stops at that top of the food chain. If you most important hire is head coach and he fails, how can he be viewed as doing his job. It’s easy to blame Nagy for everything because he hasn’t done a good job, but there no way on God’s green Earth that Offense has a lot of talent. In fact it is the opposite. There are three phases of the game and at least one has less than average league talent.

BTW , I do read your posts and know exactly where you stand on Pace, Nagy, Schwarber, the White Sox starting staff, McCall, Mertz, and much more.

You should go back and review his record. Eddie Jackson, Bryce Callahan, Adrian Amos, Jaylen Johnson, Roquon Smith, Khalil Mack trade, Eddie Goldman, Roy Robertson Harris, Bilal Nichols, Aiken Hicks (steal FA signing), Allen robinson (great FA signing), James Daniels, Cody Whitehair, Cole Kmet, Montgomery, Tarik Cohen, Darnell Mooney. These are mostly his draft picks with some FAs and one trade over the five years he has been here. At least six pro bowlers. Compare this level of talent acquisition over that period of time and I think Pace is on par or better with his GM peers.

 

[Hungry Jack]

You should go back and review his record. Eddie Jackson, Bryce Callahan, Adrian Amos, Jaylen Johnson, Roquon Smith, Khalil Mack trade, Eddie Goldman, Roy Robertson Harris, Bilal Nichols, Aiken Hicks (steal FA signing), Allen robinson (great FA signing), James Daniels, Cody Whitehair, Cole Kmet, Montgomery, Tarik Cohen, Darnell Mooney. These are mostly his draft picks with some FAs and one trade over the five years he has been here. At least six pro bowlers. Compare this level of talent acquisition over that period of time and I think Pace is on par or better with his GM peers.

Well, he has assembled considerable defensive talent in an offensive league. But the QB question is a big one, not to mention the head coach hire. And that O-line is not up to par. Still, we made the playoffs one year and have another shot this year.

Verdict: B-

 

[willycat]

Well, he has assembled considerable defensive talent in an offensive league. But the QB question is a big one, not to mention the head coach hire. And that O-line is not up to par. Still, we made the playoffs one year and have another shot this year.

Verdict: B-

True and when their biggest need was the OL, he drafts a TE with first pick. ??????

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

You should go back and review his record. Eddie Jackson, Bryce Callahan, Adrian Amos, Jaylen Johnson, Roquon Smith, Khalil Mack trade, Eddie Goldman, Roy Robertson Harris, Bilal Nichols, Aiken Hicks (steal FA signing), Allen robinson (great FA signing), James Daniels, Cody Whitehair, Cole Kmet, Montgomery, Tarik Cohen, Darnell Mooney. These are mostly his draft picks with some FAs and one trade over the five years he has been here. At least six pro bowlers. Compare this level of talent acquisition over that period of time and I think Pace is on par or better with his GM peers.

Shouldn’t expect some hits in drafting and free agency. Shouldn’t we expect some NFL players? You are pretty easy to please if all of these were great Draft and free agent signings. He will draft and sign players that start. It’s nearly impossible to miss on every move, but he sure has his fair share. Draft-Kevin White (1st round bust), Hroniss Grasu, Leonard Floyd (1st Round), Mitchell Trubisky ( franchise changing miss), Adam Shaheen, Jonathan Bullard, Jeremy Langford, Deiondre Hall, Kylie Fitts, FA’s-Mike Glennon, Trey Burton, Cody Parkey, Marcus Cooper, Markus Wheaton.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Well, he has assembled considerable defensive talent in an offensive league. But the QB question is a big one, not to mention the head coach hire. And that O-line is not up to par. Still, we made the playoffs one year and have another shot this year.

Verdict: B-

The Nagy scapegoating is baffling to me. His record is 25-14 and 7-0 against Detroit, Minnesota and as you mentioned has a great chance to make the playoffs in two of his first three years.

RE last night, his scheme got Mooney and Wimms free for sure fire TDs on multiple occasions. It should be noted that Aaron Donald was on a mission last night after being embarrassed last Sunday. That man can singlehandedly wreck a game plan when playing at his best.

Nagy is trying adjust his offense mid-season to a completely different signal caller. The guy is thoughtful and flexible (11 to 12 to 13 personel, adjusts the amount of play action, wide variety of blocking scheme to adjust to the line, RPO looks to single reads, Shotgun to I-formation). Perhaps, more importantly, his teams play hard for him and rarely show signs of giving up.

Currently, the biggest issue I see on offense (which is more predictive than defensive performance), is the line. When healthy, this unit is average, which inherently is not a bad thing. It can be helpful to think of that group as being as strong as its weakest link. Now that Daniels and Whitehair are injured, you are beginning to see signs of collapse. Without a functioning o-line you can't get anything done; just look at what has happened to Dallas and Philadelphia. Furthermore, it increases the likelihood a hot and cold QB like Foles will start freaking out under pressure which leads to some horrible decisions.

All this of can be attributed to a lack of young and cost controlled depth. Drafting Trubisky is obviously the biggest make Pace made, but he has continued to compound it by giving up picks to move up for guys like Miller and Montgomery. Sending Jacksonville a 4th for Foles was insane (I get that he wanted to "get his guy", but the Jaguars should have given the Bears a pick to take that contract). That is not to say Pace is a bad at his job. I personally think he has a good eye for under the radar talent; similar to Jerry Angelo. He is also excellent at navigating the cap. Unfortunately, Pace’s New Orleans roots (sacrificing the present for the future) have likely come back to bite to him. In order to have the luxury of "kicking the can down the road", the Bears need to have the most important position on the field figured out ahead of time, the quarterback. Pace has failed miserably in this department despite putting together an otherwise solid NFL roster.

Personally, I'm comfortable giving Pace a few more seasons to try to fix this on the fly, but I'm not confident he’ll ultimately be successful. The Bears needs to hit several home runs in future drafts with a cash strapped team that is already behind the eight ball in capital.

PS - I feel like part of the blow back against Nagy is the neanderthal-ish nature of many Chicago sports fans/media. They can't understand why running into a stone wall is not efficient in 2020...it's how we've always done it! Run the damn ball, blah, blah, blah...

 

[corbi296]

Shouldn’t expect some hits in drafting and free agency. Shouldn’t we expect some NFL players? You are pretty easy to please if all of these were great Draft and free agent signings. He will draft and sign players that start. It’s nearly impossible to miss on every move, but he sure has his fair share. Draft-Kevin White (1st round bust), Hroniss Grasu, Leonard Floyd (1st Round), Mitchell Trubisky ( franchise changing miss), Adam Shaheen, Jonathan Bullard, Jeremy Langford, Deiondre Hall, Kylie Fitts, FA’s-Mike Glennon, Trey Burton, Cody Parkey, Marcus Cooper, Markus Wheaton.

You either have a personal beef with Pace or you have no clue what you are talking about. That is a long list of high quality players. Compare that list with other NFL GM draft picks and acquisition over the same five year period and you’ll find that Pace is on par or better to his peer group.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

You either have a personal beef with Pace or you have no clue what you are talking about. That is a long list of high quality players. Compare that list with other NFL GM draft picks and acquisition over the same five year period and you’ll find that Pace is on par or better to his peer group.

BS. I have zero beef with Pace. What is wrong with you? Everyone who doesn’t agree on something has no clue. Out comes the personal insults! Brilliant, shout the other guy down .

This comes from a guy who inexplicably is still is dying on the McCall hill. The guy who questioned whether JA Morant would be a good pick. A guy who just last week poo poo’d whether Graham Mertz would live up to his billing.

So excuse me if you saying I don’t have a clue is worn as a badge of honor. Let’s agree to disagree. I think Pace is subpar, you have no problem with him. Terrific.

 

[Hungry Jack]

The Nagy scapegoating is baffling to me. His record is 25-14 and 7-0 against Detroit, Minnesota and as you mentioned has a great chance to make the playoffs in two of his first three years.

RE last night, his scheme got Mooney and Wimms free for sure fire TDs on multiple occasions. It should be noted that Aaron Donald was on a mission last night after being embarrassed last Sunday. That man can singlehandedly wreck a game plan when playing at his best.

Nagy is trying adjust his offense mid-season to a completely different signal caller. The guy is thoughtful and flexible (11 to 12 to 13 personel, adjusts the amount of play action, wide variety of blocking scheme to adjust to the line, RPO looks to single reads, Shotgun to I-formation). Perhaps, more importantly, his teams play hard for him and rarely show signs of giving up.

Currently, the biggest issue I see on offense (which is more predictive than defensive performance), is the line. When healthy, this unit is average, which inherently is not a bad thing. It can be helpful to think of that group as being as strong as its weakest link. Now that Daniels and Whitehair are injured, you are beginning to see signs of collapse. Without a functioning o-line you can't get anything done; just look at what has happened to Dallas and Philadelphia. Furthermore, it increases the likelihood a hot and cold QB like Foles will start freaking out under pressure which leads to some horrible decisions.

All this of can be attributed to a lack of young and cost controlled depth. Drafting Trubisky is obviously the biggest make Pace made, but he has continued to compound it by giving up picks to move for guys like Miller and Montgomery. Sending Jacksonville a 4th for Foles was insane (I get that he wanted to "get his guy", but the Jaguars should have given the Bears a pick to take that contract). That is not to say Pace is a bad at his job. I personally think he has a good eye for under the radar talent; similar to Jerry Angelo. He is also excellent navigating the cap. Unfortunately, Pace’s New Orleans roots (sacrificing the present for the future) have likely come back to bite to him. In order to have the luxury of "kicking the can down the road", the Bears need to have the most important position on the field figured out ahead of time, the quarterback. Pace has failed miserably in this department, despite putting together an otherwise solid NFL roster.

Personally, I'm comfortable giving Pace a few more seasons to try to fix this on the fly, but I'm not confident he’ll ultimately be successful. The Bears needs to hit several home runs in draft with a cash strapped team that is behind the eight ball.

PS - I feel like part of the blow back against Nagy is the neanderthal-ish nature of many Chicago sports fans/media. They can't understand why running into a stone wall is not efficient in 2020...it's how we've always done it! Run the damn ball, blah, blah, blah...

The Bears need to have a credible running game because they have no credible deep game. Yes, Mooney can fly (I didn’t realize he was that fast until last night) and Robinson and KMet might stretch things a bit, our line cannot hold blocks long enough to let these plays develop. We saw that repeatedly vs the Rams.

A running game that at least keeps the safeties honest is our best hope for springing explosive plays. We saw under McCall how disadvantaged we were with all those 3rd and 8s. But it all points to that line, which, as you noted, is now minus its two best players. It could sink the season.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

The Bears need to have a credible running game because they have no credible deep game. Yes, Mooney can fly (I didn’t realize he was that fast until last night) and Robinson and KMet might stretch things a bit, our line cannot hold blocks long enough to let these plays develop. We saw that repeatedly vs the Rams.

A running game that at least keeps the safeties honest is our best hope for springing explosive plays. We saw under McCall how disadvantaged we were with all those 3rd and 8s. But it all points to that line, which, as you noted, is now minus its two best players. It could sink the season.

Maybe the roster assembled is not very good in a lot of key offensive positions?

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

The Bears need to have a credible running game because they have no credible deep game. Yes, Mooney can fly (I didn’t realize he was that fast until last night) and Robinson and KMet might stretch things a bit, our line cannot hold blocks long enough to let these plays develop. We saw that repeatedly vs the Rams.

A running game that at least keeps the safeties honest is our best hope for springing explosive plays. We saw under McCall how disadvantaged we were with all those 3rd and 8s. But it all points to that line, which, as you noted, is now minus its two best players. It could sink the season.

I agree. The Bears HAVE to run the ball effectively, especially when they have the numbers. The toss to Patterson on 4th down was a perfect example of failing to execute when having that advantage.

As much as it pains me to say it, I wonder if upping the amount of 13 personnel looks we saw early with Trubisky (and his mobility) may be the only way out of this offensive spiral. In such a scenario Harris and Kmet would shoulder quite a load as Graham can’t block a fly. Unlikely move, but maybe not out of the question.

I suppose a trade deadline deal for some OL reinforcements could be in play, but that just sacrifices more of the limited draft stock the Bears currently have.

The best we can probably hope for is no significant injuries, Whitehair getting healthy and the guards stepping up their play to mediocre levels. Rely on the defense ala 2005 Lovie Bears and hope the offense/special teams find a way to cobble together 17-20 points per game. Win 9-10, snag the 7 seed and, just maybe, playoff Foles shows up.

Not a winning formula in 2020, but anytime the Bears make the post season I’m satisfied.

 

[hoosboot]

I agree. The Bears HAVE to run the ball effectively, especially when they have the numbers. The toss to Patterson on 4th down was a perfect example of failing to execute when having that advantage.

As much as it pains me to say it, I wonder if upping the amount of 13 personnel looks we saw early with Trubisky (and his mobility) may be the only way out of this offensive spiral. In such a scenario Harris and Kmet would shoulder quite a load as Graham can’t block a fly. Unlikely move, but maybe not out of the question.

I suppose a trade deadline deal for some OL reinforcements could be in play, but that just sacrifices more of the limited draft stock the Bears currently have.

The best we can probably hope for is Whitehair getting healthy and the guards stepping up their play to mediocre levels. Rely on the defense ala 2005 Lovie Bears and hope the offense/special teams find a way to cobble together 17-20 points per game. Win 9-10, snag the 7 seed and, just maybe, playoff Foles shows up.

Not a winning formula in 2020, but anytime the Bears make the post season I’m satisfied.

The problem on offense is that the Bears are below average in talent in every aspect of the game on that side of the ball. The QB play is below average. The running backs are below average. The receivers are average to below average. The offensive line is now below average. There isn't a ton of offensive talent to work with and that's hard to put on coaching.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Maybe the roster assembled is not very good in a lot of key offensive positions?

I think the receivers might be decent if we could pass protect. But Allen Robinson is not a guy you game plan around. Nor is Monty. Kmet is developing. Graham is no longer a deep threat (tho useful in red zone).

So it all adds up to guys who need a scheme, a QB to run it (Foles can), and a line to pass pro. It’s not there.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

The problem on offense is that the Bears are below average in talent in every aspect of the game on that side of the ball. The QB play is below average. The running backs are below average. The receivers are average to below average. The offensive line is now below average. There isn't a ton of offensive talent to work with and that's hard to put on coaching.

Mooney looks pretty good and Robinson is a legit #1. Wims is serviceable. Miller is highly talented, but unfocused. No clue what they have in Ridley. Kmet shows some promise. Graham is nearly washed, but has shown he is still a threat in the red zone. I’d call this group average at absolute minimum, with room for solid growth as Mooney and Kmet get more accustomed to the league.

Monty has underwhelmed, but his style is a good fit for what Nagy likes to do. Cohen is explosive and has impacted games in the past. Patterson is a fun, but his value is in special teams where he is truly elite. When healthy, this group as a whole is no worse than meh, but it isn’t a position worth fretting about. Most RBs are line/scheme dependent.

That being said, I’d agree with your assessment of the line, the QBs, and that the staff can only get so much out of their personnel, especially as the injuries mount in the trenches.

My biggest issue with the offense is the lack of draft capital invested in it. It shouldn’t come as too much as surprise though. This is what can happen when you regularly trade away future picks to chase the present without try to recoup value in trade downs or the compensatory formula.

 

[NUCat320]

BS. I have zero beef with Pace. What is wrong with you? Everyone who doesn’t agree on something has no clue. Out comes the personal insults! Brilliant, shout the other guy down .

This comes from a guy who inexplicably is still is dying on the McCall hill. The guy who questioned whether JA Morant would be a good pick. A guy who just last week poo poo’d whether Graham Mertz would live up to his billing.

So excuse me if you saying I don’t have a clue is worn as a badge of honor. Let’s agree to disagree. I think Pace is subpar, you have no problem with him. Terrific.

This is my favorite corbi special. Dak! Watson!

QB draft prediction

By the way, several years ago, I was talking about McSorley and said he was going to be a good one and I remember you said he wouldn't amount to anything. Were you basing on that on talent evaluators or your own totally incorrect evaluation? YASFOS

northwestern.forums.rivals.com

And gcg nailed the big finish.

Corbi’s been on fire on the Rant Board in 2020. I’m still a big corbi fan.

 

[Hungry Jack]

This is my favorite corbi special. Dak! Watson!

QB draft prediction

By the way, several years ago, I was talking about McSorley and said he was going to be a good one and I remember you said he wouldn't amount to anything. Were you basing on that on talent evaluators or your own totally incorrect evaluation? YASFOS

northwestern.forums.rivals.com

And gcg nailed the big finish.

“Currently, I would put Bortles in the same category of QBs as Cam Newton, Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck (post injury), Deshaun Watson, and Kirk Cousins“

CORBI.WHAT.THE.MOTHER.GRABBING.FUKK?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

“Currently, I would put Bortles in the same category of QBs as Cam Newton, Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck (post injury), Deshaun Watson, and Kirk Cousins“

CORBI.WHAT.THE.MOTHER.GRABBING.FUKK?

This is a doozy in a growing list of them. Everyone has projections that suck, but not everyone is so quick to double down that they are correct and everyone else without that opinion doesn’t have a clue.