And yet he did or brought in the guy who was supposed to be the direct replacement for Lindsey in Taylor. He is about 4 ppg less than Lindsey last year so it has not worked out as well as hoped but he did replace him.
Point Guards
- Thread starter mikewebb68
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Too much crap to respond to it all. As far as the replacement for Linsey -Taylor was brought in to fill that role
As far as a replacement for Law if he had not been injured, that MRS was a couple years ago so it was known he would have this year three years ago. Don't have to replace him if you know he is not going to be gone but in any event, Turner would seem to be a guy that could do it.. As far as replacement for Sanjay? Heard of a guy named Gaines? As far as a replacement for Moore, Lindsey did that more than adequately. Have we had a Shurna yet? Not quite. Closest is likely Law. My guess going forward, we will get a closer candidate. My guess is Nance or Berhan but it could be Kopp. If it is Nance or Kopp, most of their mpact would be in one less year. But Shurna wasn't Shurna till his Soph year anyway as he averaged less than 8 ppg as a frosh
Makes you wish for a better board.
Who started this thread? Mike started by changing my terms. Doesn’t make them mine. Nice two team. Mike shifts then you assign to me. No thank you. Would you like my terms one more time ?
Actually, this excercise helped me learn a lot about point guard play, which makes me enjoy the college basketball games I watch far better. There is no competition with Bob; I already own his screenname, the competition is over!
Wait wut? I thought that, with you and I, it was the best board in the universe!
Who started this thread? Mike started by changing my terms. Doesn’t make them mine. Nice two team. Mike shifts then you assign to me. No thank you. Would you like my terms one more time ?
Let me know how I changed your terms, as I actually have been doing my very best to adhere to them as strictly as possible...
I have always contended that CCC has not recruited enough legit ballhandling guards for the roster. This goes back to BMac days, when I feared injury or overuse would derail the season.
I do not subscribe to the notion that you can only have one on the roster because others will not come. I believe we will see that successful teams have at least two, and often more, guards that can safeguard the ball and either distribute at a high level, or drive with the option to dish or finish.
We have seen teams press us more often this year. (Another thought I expressed). Our turnover rates weren't horrible, but it ate clock. It often left the ball in the wrong hands to start the half court.
Some folks have absolutely insisted that we can only have one talented starting guard of this type. Therefore, we must rely on a true frosh every four years. And since we have had some limited success (remind me how many All BIG frosh LGs or PGs that NU has hosted), this is a tried and true approach. I disagree.
With limited exception, frosh should be on the bench and ideally redshirted. Only in injury or exceptional practice play do they see the floor. I think Greer is the rule, BMac was the exception. I know, Sobo, Juice, etc. How many All-B!G frosh during the last 25 years or so? How many All American frosh? I can remember Doyle forced to be the primary ballhandler, this year a committee of poor options.
Now, at times, people have tried to attach a label - PG or LG - to my desire. Nope. I don't care what you call them or recruit them to be. I am talking about the product on the floor. We have wings trying to be guards. We have young frosh trying to play against seasoned power 5 conference athletes. And I believe that is a major reason why we suck this year.
Lathon, true frosh, would not have made a difference. The die was cast over the past couple years when CCC failed to bring in some quality guards, as freshman or transfers (gosh knows we have always had an open seat).
Next year - we have a young Greer. We have Gaines. We have a true frosh Buie. We need a talented ballhanding guard transferring in as a grad student. CCC should be scouring the portal.
And while not a grad student, Harvard has a 3 star guard looking to move on.
OK, nice post, but I asked about how I changed your terms in my analysis of guard play as you contend, since I am attempting to adhere to your terms as much as possible...
OK, on to last night's game:
Michigan: Zavier Simpson absolutely runs the show here, and his A/TO is one of the league's best at 3.2. and Eli Brooks is a competent backup who also has an excellent A/TO ration (2.6). There's no one else who handles the ball, but no one else is needed to satify Bob's criteria, so score one for Bob here for this NCAA lock.
Minny: though more of a combo guard, Dupree McBreyer (2.21 A/TO) would most certainly satisfy both of Bob's criteria.Isaiah Washington (2.14 A/TO) also looks the part as well, on a team that doesn't have a true PG. No one else comes close, but we don't need another one per Bob's criteria, so score another for Bob for this last-4 in Dance team.
So that concludes my BIG ballhandling guard analysis. Update stats:
Last night, Bob 2, Me 0
Overall: Bob 8, Me 5
Dance Teams only: .Bob 6, Me 2
My conclusion: Based on an admittedly small sample size, though having multiple ballhandling guards is not necessarily a prerequisite to be a Dance team, it certainly helps! I looks forward to Bob's Dance team analysis.
Michigan: Zavier Simpson absolutely runs the show here, and his A/TO is one of the league's best at 3.2. and Eli Brooks is a competent backup who also has an excellent A/TO ration (2.6). There's no one else who handles the ball, but no one else is needed to satify Bob's criteria, so score one for Bob here for this NCAA lock.
Minny: though more of a combo guard, Dupree McBreyer (2.21 A/TO) would most certainly satisfy both of Bob's criteria.Isaiah Washington (2.14 A/TO) also looks the part as well, on a team that doesn't have a true PG. No one else comes close, but we don't need another one per Bob's criteria, so score another for Bob for this last-4 in Dance team.
So that concludes my BIG ballhandling guard analysis. Update stats:
Last night, Bob 2, Me 0
Overall: Bob 8, Me 5
Dance Teams only: .Bob 6, Me 2
My conclusion: Based on an admittedly small sample size, though having multiple ballhandling guards is not necessarily a prerequisite to be a Dance team, it certainly helps! I looks forward to Bob's Dance team analysis.
again - this team should have lathon (26-30 min) and Ash (10-14) min and you would have 2 ball handling guards
Agreed, but I am reviewing other teams, not outs.
i still contend that most teams don't have have two capable 30 min game ball handlers. most have a major minutes player and someone to give that guy a ten minute rest.
if MOST major DI programs lost their significant ball handler play would drop considerably
I would argue that the good ones do. Mostly. And the dance will show us. Really don’t care what the other bad teams do to fail.
Your final sentence is obvious. That’s why they’re backups.
Northwestern had no backup plan when their plan A - a freshman - went down. After all, if Ash truly were the backup plan, then Ash would have become the starter when Lathon became a non-prospect.
As it stands, Ash started games 1-2, and then continued to hardly play. His single-season high for minutes was in the season opener.
Frankly, insisting Ash is a point guard or a lead guard or a primary ball handler or whatever term we like to apply reflects poorly upon you. (He’s not - we all can see that he mostly stands in the corner , or swings the ball around the perimeter on offense. He doesn’t and never has initiated.) And if CCC believed that Ash was a sufficient backup at the position, and didn’t prioritize the PG position in recruiting prior to Lathon’s class, it reflects poorly on his ability to evaluate his own talent.
Uh, Ash hardly played after that because he was feeling pain again, and had to shut it down.
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ash was recovering from knee surgery that happened over the summer.
I’mma chalk my playing time statements it up to sleepy brain.
Ash isn’t a point guard, and never has been.
Yeah, he was the backup, have you been following? Forced into a starting role due to Lathon, but couldn't continue due to injury. Awake now?I’mma chalk my playing time statements it up to sleepy brain.
Ash isn’t a point guard, and never has been.
Ash never was or will be a legit B1G player. He was a recruit that can be qualified as a miss.
Was Jeremy Nash a legit BIG ten player? He is one of many examples of a player who did not substantially contribute until his senior season. If you agree that Nash and others like him) were contributors, then you will have to agree that Ash's injury never gave us the chance to see if he could be a oontributor or not.
Lathon - played 40 minutes yesterday and had 32 points, 18 rebounds, and 3 assists
probably wouldn't translate to the big ten, but to think he wouldn't help us with the ball in his hands for the majority of a game is nonsense.
looking forward to having a player like that in boo next year, having greer as a back up, and possibly a 5th year we will like very different.
probably wouldn't translate to the big ten, but to think he wouldn't help us with the ball in his hands for the majority of a game is nonsense.
looking forward to having a player like that in boo next year, having greer as a back up, and possibly a 5th year we will like very different.
Nash was an important contributor as a junior (2008-09). An essential part of that team's ability to force turnovers and create easy buckets. There was a big jump in his play between year two and three
Additionally, that year he proved dunking was allowed on a PO squad : )
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That may be, but statistically, his soph and junior years are a mirror image. Senior year, however, they took a big leap.
Relying on a true frosh as Plan A with no reasonable substitute is a terrible idea. Shit happens. Millionaire coaches plan contingencies.
You want me to provide a hundred other examples, or will you take my word for it? I found that example in 30 seconds...
Remind me how many guys have transitioned from year 3 to year 4 during the period your sample would come from to provide better context.
Giys that improved from year 3 to year 4? Suspect you don't mean that, since that would be most.
Guys that emergwd in their senior seasons? Of course that is not going ro be a high percentage, but my point i bringing up Nash off the top off my head was to state that it is not a unicorn event. We'll never know if Ash would have emerged or not, obviously...
As pointed out above, Nash began to emerge in his junior year. Senior year was more offensive development. Ash has never looked like a legit B1G player. Maybe he will get a medical,waiver, we have a bunch of empty schollies. Then he can prove it. Or we can watch him play at the next level, wonder what that will be.
Offensively speaking, this is correct. Jeremy always had a decent stroke, but was reluctant to shoot/attack the basket until 2009-10. Ash’s overall impact as a junior, however, was a drop in the bucket compared to Nash. Traditional statistics don’t tell the whole story.
All this to say, if Ash was able to give it a go this year, he would have needed to take a massive leap to match Nash’s production as a senior. It wouldn’t have been impossible, but certainly unlikely given the trajectory of his Northwestern career.
Man, why don't you guys get a room.
You each have made your point.
Neither of you is going to change the other's opinion.
This debate is just tired.
You can throw in Gaines as a 3rd, And his driving dishing ability would be enhanced if we hit 3 s at more than a 20-25% rate as we have in a lot of games. As far as Turner, he was more of a guard coming out of HS and while he grew a couple inches, still can handle the ball. Not to Bob's satisfaction perhaps but...
He was injured and had not fully recovered and then had a setback. But regardless he would have been an adequate backup to a 30 mpg guy that Lathon represented
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