So can someone explain....

[stpaulcat]

how this is better than Bill Carmody?

I've heard all the hype, we've got some great players (which we do), we're about to win a record number of games and about to maybe, like many years, almost make it to the NCAA's.

Maybe NU basketball just is about almost making it. It's that when I turn on the TV to watch NU basketball, it is the same old, same old.

I'm not Felis and I'm not "a wish Carmody were still here person." It's that it's been pretty much like this for 17 years at least now. Not unlike NU Football, we just can't seem to break through.

 

[timbfischer]

In the four years of Chris Collins, we have never been worse than 6-12 in the conference. That includes this season where we will be at least 9-9. In 2000-2001, Carmody went 3-13; in 2002-2003, we were 3-13; in 2006-07, we were 2-14; in 2007-08, we were 1-17; in 2012-13, we were 4-14. So, there's that. Also, since Collins has taken over our conference record have been 6-12, 6-12, 8-10, and a minimum of 9-9, which is improvement and our overall record will have improved or stayed the same ever since.

 

[willycat]

how this is better than Bill Carmody?

I've heard all the hype, we've got some great players (which we do), we're about to win a record number of games and about to maybe, like many years, almost make it to the NCAA's.

Maybe NU basketball just is about almost making it. It's that when I turn on the TV to watch NU basketball, it is the same old, same old.

I'm not Felis and I'm not "a wish Carmody were still here person." It's that it's been pretty much like this for 17 years at least now. Not unlike NU Football, we just can't seem to break through.

Carmody was a coach who hated recruiting and didn't coach defense or rebounding. He was a one trick pony, with Princeton offense and 1-3-1 defense. We know Law wouldn't be here Falzon and Rap either. It' by far not the same old same old.

 

[wildcatpn]

how this is better than Bill Carmody?

I've heard all the hype, we've got some great players (which we do), we're about to win a record number of games and about to maybe, like many years, almost make it to the NCAA's.

Maybe NU basketball just is about almost making it. It's that when I turn on the TV to watch NU basketball, it is the same old, same old.

I'm not Felis and I'm not "a wish Carmody were still here person." It's that it's been pretty much like this for 17 years at least now. Not unlike NU Football, we just can't seem to break through.

We can actually compete while utilizing man to man defense and while not utilizing a gimmick offense.

 

[FloridAlum]

Carmody was a coach who hated recruiting and didn't coach defense or rebounding. He was a one trick pony, with Princeton offense and 1-3-1 defense. We know Law wouldn't be here Falzon and Rap either. It' by far not the same old same old.

It should be rather obvious to anybody that the overall quality of the team and the depth is much better than it was. Things are looking up. Collins has brought in four four-star recruits since he got here, and there is no reason to think our recruiting will not continue to improve. Add to that the buzz around the program and the amount of attention we are getting from the media, and you have to be pretty pleased with things in general.

 

[EvanstonCat]

how this is better than Bill Carmody?

I've heard all the hype, we've got some great players (which we do), we're about to win a record number of games and about to maybe, like many years, almost make it to the NCAA's.

Maybe NU basketball just is about almost making it. It's that when I turn on the TV to watch NU basketball, it is the same old, same old.

I'm not Felis and I'm not "a wish Carmody were still here person." It's that it's been pretty much like this for 17 years at least now. Not unlike NU Football, we just can't seem to break through.

Take a chill pill. Our best player has mono and still isn't fully recovered. We have 3 scholarships that are either injured for the year or taken off the team. And our best players on the team are still just juniors or younger. And we are one year ahead of the Coach K plan. And still we are likely to make the dance this year. I say we win against Michigan or Purdue, and maybe both. And we'll take a couple games in the tourney. Won't even be on the bubble.

Next year, we'll be ranked most of the way and into March. That's not Carmody. That's NU basketball moving forward.

 

[Katatonic]

Things are better, but cue the apologists for taking the exact same arguments and applying them to CC (but somehow, the same arguments don't hold for BC).

Basically it still comes down to talent level.

As I had stated from the start, if CC is going to play straight-up, he not only will have to increase the talent base more than where BC had it, but increase it so that it is in the upper half of the conference.

The 'Cats simply aren't there yet (yeah, there have been some injuries, but every team has injuries, some worse.) and they have been fortunate this season in that a good # of B1G teams are young, playing a boatload of frosh.

Take Penn State, for example.

Being a young team, they are predictably inconsistent, but despite their youth, they have some good wins under their belt (MSU, Minny, Maryland) along with taking Purdue to OT and beating Illinois twice.

Next season, PSU should be much improved and watch out in 2018-19.

Even tho the 'Cats beat the Lions, was impressed by their athleticism and length (if a few more of their shots had gone in, would have been a more interesting game at the end).

This is why it is of great importance for the team to make the NCAAs this season - the initial bump on recruiting upon the coaching change had played its course and recruits now want to see tangible results.

The core of the team (which was CC's 1st class) will be departing after next season (aside from Law) and CC needs to not only replace them, but upgrade them.

The staff is in on some very promising recruits and how the team finishes the season could sway some of the recruits one way or the other.

 

[D_C_B]

how this is better than Bill Carmody?

I've heard all the hype, we've got some great players (which we do), we're about to win a record number of games and about to maybe, like many years, almost make it to the NCAA's.

Maybe NU basketball just is about almost making it. It's that when I turn on the TV to watch NU basketball, it is the same old, same old.

I'm not Felis and I'm not "a wish Carmody were still here person." It's that it's been pretty much like this for 17 years at least now. Not unlike NU Football, we just can't seem to break through.

I will explain. Because we play defense. And we rebound. And we run the floor. And we play real basketball now.

We play beautiful basketball - right up until the point where CCC takes the air out of the ball for the last 4 or 5 minutes and abandons everything that works for us.

BC didn't abandon his offfense at the end of games. It just doesn't work! CCC abandons his.

Your real question should be: how is this any different than what Fitz does when he gets a lead? If you asked THAT question, I'd be incapable of giving you an answer because I see zero difference...

 

[EvanstonCat]

Things are better, but cue the apologists for taking the exact same arguments and applying them to CC (but somehow, the same arguments don't hold for BC).

Basically it still comes down to talent level.

As I had stated from the start, if CC is going to play straight-up, he not only will have to increase the talent base more than where BC had it, but increase it so that it is in the upper half of the conference.

The 'Cats simply aren't there yet (yeah, there have been some injuries, but every team has injuries, some worse.) and they have been fortunate this season in that a good # of B1G teams are young, playing a boatload of frosh.

Take Penn State, for example.

Being a young team, they are predictably inconsistent, but despite their youth, they have some good wins under their belt (MSU, Minny, Maryland) along with taking Purdue to OT and beating Illinois twice.

Next season, PSU should be much improved and watch out in 2018-19.

Even tho the 'Cats beat the Lions, was impressed by their athleticism and length (if a few more of their shots had gone in, would have been a more interesting game at the end).

This is why it is of great importance for the team to make the NCAAs this season - the initial bump on recruiting upon the coaching change had played its course and recruits now want to see tangible results.

The core of the team (which was CC's 1st class) will be departing after next season (aside from Law) and CC needs to only replace them, but upgrade them.

The staff is in on some very promising recruits and how the team finishes the season could sway some of the recruits one way or the other.

Uh... don't look now, but the Cats are already STILL in the top half of the conference, and that isn't going to change even if we lose out.

 

[Deeringfish]

Take a chill pill. Our best player has mono and still isn't fully recovered. We have 3 scholarships that are either injured for the year or taken off the team. And our best players on the team are still just juniors or younger. And we are one year ahead of the Coach K plan. And still we are likely to make the dance this year. I say we win against Michigan or Purdue, and maybe both. And we'll take a couple games in the tourney. Won't even be on the bubble.

Next year, we'll be ranked most of the way and into March. That's not Carmody. That's NU basketball moving forward.

This.
and I really enjoyed BC and felt he brought a level of improvement to the team.

 

[Hungry Jack]

The premise of this thread boggles my mind.

On the cusp of our first tourney birth
Better athletes - we can run and play man defense
More depth (despite 3 dead schollies) - need I remind you of Cher Ajou and Mike Turner?
Major facility upgrade

And it's only year 4--one recruiting cycle

 

[Sec.112]

You're kidding, right?

I'm sure the "I just want to be right" crew will come out of the walls if this falls apart. Go ahead and ask the question then, when the board needs a bump. In the interest of harmony, this isn't the day for this question.

 

[Walker Fan]

That is too funny. Go follow a 5th place team in a Patriot League with a RPI of 195. Too funny. NU has more talent than it ever has. A reasonable argument can be made that NU will be much better next season than ever before because Carmody recruited players will graduate. They will be a top 4 team in the Big 10 next season and have a shot at the regular season championship which no Big 10 team has done since 1933.

Lumpkin makes it difficult to win against Big 10 teams with talent in the top half of the Big 10 because he is way below average on offense. Lumpkin playing 30 minutes a game means that NU is playing 5 on 4 on offense for large stretches of the game and the guy guarding Lumpkin can cheat off him. When Falzon and Rapolas are out there next season, they won't be able to do that. Also, Taphorn is a limited player with no defensive later quickness. Those are recruits from your favorite coach.

NU has won 9 games in the Big 10 and won 20 games for the past two seasons. That is a record for NU. NU is recruiting higher caliber players than ever before and if any high level recruit can't see that he could put NU over the top then they are blind like you to make that comment.

Carmody is a mid-major coach who stole all his coaching strategies from an Ivy League legend in Pete Carill. There is no original thought and that does not cut it in the Big 10 which is a power conference. Plus, he was an awful recruiter. Bo Ryan should have given him a Final 4 ring for his failure to recruit Kaminsky, Dujan and Brust who were in his own backyard. But keep up your clueless thinking that we are not in a much better place because of one game where a no-name guy shoots a 3/4s shot before half and NU's players miss key free throws and commit silly fouls and don't box out when they are fifth year seniors who are 22 years old and should know better. That is the coaches' fault, right? No, that is wrong.

 

[Styre]

And we are one year ahead of the Coach K plan.

What does this mean? Coach K made the tournament in his 4th year at Duke.

 

[NJCat]

What does this mean? Coach K made the tournament in his 4th year at Duke.

It means once again he is letting facts get in the way of a good argument......

 

[cometclear]

That is too funny. Go follow a 5th place team in a Patriot League with a RPI of 195. Too funny. NU has more talent than it ever has. A reasonable argument can be made that NU will be much better next season than ever before because Carmody recruited players will graduate. They will be a top 4 team in the Big 10 next season and have a shot at the regular season championship which no Big 10 team has done since 1933.

Lumpkin makes it difficult to win against Big 10 teams with talent in the top half of the Big 10 because he is way below average on offense. Lumpkin playing 30 minutes a game means that NU is playing 5 on 4 on offense for large stretches of the game and the guy guarding Lumpkin can cheat off him. When Falzon and Rapolas are out there next season, they won't be able to do that. Also, Taphorn is a limited player with no defensive later quickness. Those are recruits from your favorite coach.

NU has won 9 games in the Big 10 and won 20 games for the past two seasons. That is a record for NU. NU is recruiting higher caliber players than ever before and if any high level recruit can't see that he could put NU over the top then they are blind like you to make that comment.

Carmody is a mid-major coach who stole all his coaching strategies from an Ivy League legend in Pete Carill. There is no original thought and that does not cut it in the Big 10 which is a power conference. Plus, he was an awful recruiter. Bo Ryan should have given him a Final 4 ring for his failure to recruit Kaminsky, Dujan and Brust who were in his own backyard. But keep up your clueless thinking that we are not in a much better place because of one game where a no-name guy shoots a 3/4s shot before half and NU's players miss key free throws and commit silly fouls and don't box out when they are fifth year seniors who are 22 years old and should know better. That is the coaches' fault, right? No, that is wrong.

Sanjay Lumpkin is one of the reasons the team has been riding on three wheels instead of one during this late-season collapse. He's a tremendous defensive player and works the boards. The team would be performing worse without him in the lineup. I could just as easily argue that the horrid shooting percentages from a number of other key contributors renders the team 4 on 5 or 3 on 5. None of those other poor-shooting players offer the defense and intensity Lumpkin offers.


Your claims about next season are hyperbole. Recruiting will have to improve for such lofty predictions to be reasonable. Namely, when top 50-type recruits start signing for NU. That hasn't happened. The further hyperbole about Carmody's recruiting also falls flat when one actually examines who he recruited and who Collins has recruited. If anything, Carmody's recruits, as it stands now, may average out higher in terms of recruiting rankings. It would be interesting to go back and do that rather than relying on the memories of some folks who have already recreated the past so generously.

 

[stpaulcat]

Take a chill pill. Our best player has mono and still isn't fully recovered. We have 3 scholarships that are either injured for the year or taken off the team. And our best players on the team are still just juniors or younger. And we are one year ahead of the Coach K plan. And still we are likely to make the dance this year. I say we win against Michigan or Purdue, and maybe both. And we'll take a couple games in the tourney. Won't even be on the bubble.

Next year, we'll be ranked most of the way and into March. That's not Carmody. That's NU basketball moving forward.

I wasn't criticizing, just wondering. It seems like the best days for major NU sports are always yet to come, just around the corner. We don't have to be Duke, or Stanford, although it seems like there's no reason we can't be. There was a time when Harvard, Yale, Penn, even Chicago, had some of the best teams in the country. I think that the leading academic institutions should be the leading sports schools also, and I hope NU will lead those one day.

 

[Hungry Jack]

I wasn't criticizing, just wondering. It seems like the best days for major NU sports are always yet to come, just around the corner. We don't have to be Duke, or Stanford, although it seems like there's no reason we can't be. There was a time when Harvard, Yale, Penn, even Chicago, had some of the best teams in the country. I think that the leading academic institutions should be the leading sports schools also, and I hope NU will lead those one day.

You don't things significantly better than they were four years ago?

 

[willycat]

I wasn't criticizing, just wondering. It seems like the best days for major NU sports are always yet to come, just around the corner. We don't have to be Duke, or Stanford, although it seems like there's no reason we can't be. There was a time when Harvard, Yale, Penn, even Chicago, had some of the best teams in the country. I think that the leading academic institutions should be the leading sports schools also, and I hope NU will lead those one day.

That's all fair but pinning for Carmody isn't.

 

[willycat]

Sanjay Lumpkin is one of the reasons the team has been riding on three wheels instead of one during this late-season collapse. He's a tremendous defensive player and works the boards. The team would be performing worse without him in the lineup. I could just as easily argue that the horrid shooting percentages from a number of other key contributors renders the team 4 on 5 or 3 on 5. None of those other poor-shooting players offer the defense and intensity Lumpkin offers.


Your claims about next season are hyperbole. Recruiting will have to improve for such lofty predictions to be reasonable. Namely, when top 50-type recruits start signing for NU. That hasn't happened. The further hyperbole about Carmody's recruiting also falls flat when one actually examines who he recruited and who Collins has recruited. If anything, Carmody's recruits, as it stands now, may average out higher in terms of recruiting rankings. It would be interesting to go back and do that rather than relying on the memories of some folks who have already recreated the past so generously.

I have been watching Lumpkin's play on defense these past few weeks and I'll just say that his defense and especially his rebounding are a bit over-rated. he is not even the best defender on the team , as that rating belongs to Law. Your kidding yourself, if you even remotely think that Carmody recruited higher ranked recruits then Collins has. other then Crawford, who was ranked as high as Law, Mac, Falzon, Rap or Benson?

 

[cometclear]

I have been watching Lumpkin's play on defense these past few weeks and I'll just say that his defense and especially his rebounding are a bit over-rated. he is not even the best defender on the team , as that rating belongs to Law. Your kidding yourself, if you even remotely think that Carmody recruited higher ranked recruits then Collins has. other then Crawford, who was ranked as high as Law, Mac, Falzon, Rap or Benson?

One of the things I've observed over many years is that people's memories usually go back about 6-12 months and homers will always tout the latest crop of recruits as the best ones ever. Exactly one of those Collins recruits you cite was a consensus top 100 recruit - Law. Carmody recruited Crawford, who was rated similarly to Law. Like Collins, Carmody had many guys in that 100-250 category: Juice Thompson, Winston Blake, Mike Capocci, Vince Scott, T.J. Parker and many others. Precisely the same range as Benson, Falzon, McIntosh and the others. It wasn't good enough then and that sort of recruiting won't have NU challenging for Big Ten crowns now. A one-player class at this stage of the game is obviously a disappointment, particularly when it consists of another player in that 100-250 range.

 

[willycat]

One of the things I've observed over many years is that people's memories usually go back about 6-12 months and homers will always tout the latest crop of recruits as the best ones ever. Exactly one of those Collins recruits you cite was a consensus top 100 recruit - Law. Carmody recruited Crawford, who was rated similarly to Law. Like Collins, Carmody had many guys in that 100-250 category: Juice Thompson, Winston Blake, Mike Capocci, Vince Scott, T.J. Parker and many others. Precisely the same range as Benson, Falzon, McIntosh and the others. It wasn't good enough then and that sort of recruiting won't have NU challenging for Big Ten crowns now. A one-player class at this stage of the game is obviously a disappointment, particularly when it consists of another player in that 100-250 range.

Your kidding with putting Thompson, Scott, Blake and especially Capocci in the same class as Falzon, Benson and MacIntosh, right?

 

[Walker Fan]

No, Crawford was a three star athlete who had to send his DVD to Carmody to even get Tavaras Hardy to recruit. Carmody would never have gone after him if Crawford did not make the first move and get Hardy to take a look at him. Law was a 4-star athlete who was ranked anywhere between 66-71 in the nation. That is not in Illinois but the nation. Our highest rated recruit since Eschmeyer. So wrong. Juice Thompson was not anywhere near a top 100 and top 250 recruit. He was a 5'9"-5'10" lightly recruited PG from the basketball powerhouse of Lincoln Park High School. Very strong academically but poor basketball team.

Recruits in the top 100-150 have other big 10 offers. How many other Big 10 offers did Thompson have? 0. How many offers did the 9th guy or 10th guy on the current roster have Barrett Benson? The answer is 7 other Big 10 team offered him. Falzon was ranked anywhere at 100-115. He was a 4-star forward who many say was best shooting power forward in the high school class. So yes, he was ranked higher than Capocci and Vince Scott who I have no recollection playing any meaningful minutes. Oh my, I do not have enough time or desire to blow apart this post. Anyone else who has been watching recruiting closely back me up? Even Jordan Ash was ranked around 150 nationally was a higher rated recruit than any of those other mentioned and he can not see any minutes. He was on an Illinois state champion team which we have almost never seen before at NU. Bringing cluelessness to new heights is this poster.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I wasn't criticizing, just wondering. It seems like the best days for major NU sports are always yet to come, just around the corner. We don't have to be Duke, or Stanford, although it seems like there's no reason we can't be. There was a time when Harvard, Yale, Penn, even Chicago, had some of the best teams in the country. I think that the leading academic institutions should be the leading sports schools also, and I hope NU will lead those one day.

Well, take solace that these are the best days... so far. With much more to come.

 

[stpaulcat]

That's all fair but pinning for Carmody isn't.

I initially said I'm not yearning for Carmody to be back, as Collins is an excellent coach and it probably was time for a change, but this is not to resurrect that argument at all. What I also said is that every time I turn on the TV to watch NU basketball, which hasn't been all that often until recently, the result is similar from then to now. We lose in a disappointing fashion. So, that's my problem, for not having watched earlier in the season when we were on the way to 20 wins. This is a good team, undergoing the end of season woes of a not so deep team, with not quite enough really athletic players to compete at the top of the B1G. That part hasn't changed. Also, as some one else mentioned, taking the foot off the gas when we get a lead is something that has changed. So, winning the B1G tournament will certainly shut me up.

 

[EvanstonCat]

What does this mean? Coach K made the tournament in his 4th year at Duke.

Oops, yeah, you're right. So we're right on plan.

The Coach K plan also has us winning the conference and becoming NCAA runner up by year 6. That's the year after next. And beginning next year, expect over the next 10 years, perennial tourney appearances, 8 Sweet Sixteens, 7 Final 4 appearances, 5 championship game appearances, and 2 NCAA titles. Just 4 B1G titles though. That's the Coach K plan, and we are right on track!

 

[D_C_B]

I have been watching Lumpkin's play on defense these past few weeks and I'll just say that his defense and especially his rebounding are a bit over-rated. he is not even the best defender on the team , as that rating belongs to Law. Your kidding yourself, if you even remotely think that Carmody recruited higher ranked recruits then Collins has. other then Crawford, who was ranked as high as Law, Mac, Falzon, Rap or Benson?

Law is the best and most versatile one on one defender NU has had in a long, long, long time.

 

[cometclear]

No, Crawford was a three star athlete who had to send his DVD to Carmody to even get Tavaras Hardy to recruit. Carmody would never have gone after him if Crawford did not make the first move and get Hardy to take a look at him. Law was a 4-star athlete who was ranked anywhere between 66-71 in the nation. That is not in Illinois but the nation. Our highest rated recruit since Eschmeyer. So wrong. Juice Thompson was not anywhere near a top 100 and top 250 recruit. He was a 5'9"-5'10" lightly recruited PG from the basketball powerhouse of Lincoln Park High School. Very strong academically but poor basketball team.

Recruits in the top 100-150 have other big 10 offers. How many other Big 10 offers did Thompson have? 0. How many offers did the 9th guy or 10th guy on the current roster have Barrett Benson? The answer is 7 other Big 10 team offered him. Falzon was ranked anywhere at 100-115. He was a 4-star forward who many say was best shooting power forward in the high school class. So yes, he was ranked higher than Capocci and Vince Scott who I have no recollection playing any meaningful minutes. Oh my, I do not have enough time or desire to blow apart this post. Anyone else who has been watching recruiting closely back me up? Even Jordan Ash was ranked around 150 nationally was a higher rated recruit than any of those other mentioned and he can not see any minutes. He was on an Illinois state champion team which we have almost never seen before at NU. Bringing cluelessness to new heights is this poster.

Not only was Juice Thompson was consistently rated in the 100-200 range, he was considered the most important NU because he was the first Chicago Public League signee in a couple decades.

All of the players I mentioned were ranked as I said. This place has an inordinate number of posters who will hype the latest signees beyond belief and rewrite history. You might recall the hype for Vassar, followed by the historical rewrites afterwards.

I also forgot about Jershon Cobb's ranking: http://www.thesportsbank.net/northw...signs-top-100-recruit-2010-11-looking-better/

I also forgot Mo Hachad, who was rated in the 100-150 range.

 

[cometclear]

Your kidding with putting Thompson, Scott, Blake and especially Capocci in the same class as Falzon, Benson and MacIntosh, right?

All were rated in the 100-200 range, as I stated. All had less than impressive school lists. NU will have to do better. A one-player class with yet another player in that range won't come close to getting it done.

 

[willycat]

All were rated in the 100-200 range, as I stated. All had less than impressive school lists. NU will have to do better. A one-player class with yet another player in that range won't come close to getting it done.

Ah, they are already "close" to getting it done, in case you haven't noticed.

 

[Fitz51]

In the four years of Chris Collins, we have never been worse than 6-12 in the conference. That includes this season where we will be at least 9-9. In 2000-2001, Carmody went 3-13; in 2002-2003, we were 3-13; in 2006-07, we were 2-14; in 2007-08, we were 1-17; in 2012-13, we were 4-14. So, there's that. Also, since Collins has taken over our conference record have been 6-12, 6-12, 8-10, and a minimum of 9-9, which is improvement and our overall record will have improved or stayed the same ever since.

6-6-8-9?

 

[Walker Fan]

Too funny. Lincoln Park High School is not a school rich with basketball talent. So if you think Michael Thompson opened the floodgates for talent to NU from the CPS, you are sadly mistaken. Thompson was the no. 162 recruit and had offers from Bradley, Illinois State, Middle Tennessee State and Wisconsin Green Bay. That shows that he was not viewed as a Big 10 level talent except for NU. That shows you he was a mid-major player and worked his way into being a sold Big 10 player by his junior and senior season by playing. Now, Collins is recruiting players from the top basketball schools of CPS like Morgan Park like Charlie Moore and Simeon and no, he is not combing through the program at Lincoln Park High School. Benson had offers from UofI, Purdue, Iowa, Nebraska, Indiana, Nebraska and one other Big 10 team that I am forgetting. Right now he is the no. 9 on the team and the fourth guy off the bench behind Skelly, Brown and Taphorn. I think he has good talent and needs to play more but that is what the coaching think he deserves in 3-5 minutes a game. But keep dreaming about the BC Era and Mike Capocci. I don't remember him doing one good thing at NU. Wow, such a distortion of reality. Law, Falzon and Rapolas were four star players. Cobb was the only four star talent that Hardy recruited in 13 years of BC. And he was injured early on in his career and never lived up to the promise as a pick in the 95-100 range nationally. I will look up Capocci and see what or if any record exists about this high school ranking.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

The first guy to come to NU in decades from the CPS was not Juice, but rather Sterling Williams.

 

[NUCat320]

Now, Collins is recruiting players from the top basketball schools of CPS like Morgan Park like Charlie Moore and Simeon and no, he is not combing through the program at Lincoln Park High School.

If you think recruiting Charlie Moore is impressive, you should *see* what an offer letter to Anthony Davis looks like.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

In the four years of Chris Collins, we have never been worse than 6-12 in the conference. That includes this season where we will be at least 9-9. In 2000-2001, Carmody went 3-13; in 2002-2003, we were 3-13; in 2006-07, we were 2-14; in 2007-08, we were 1-17; in 2012-13, we were 4-14. So, there's that. Also, since Collins has taken over our conference record have been 6-12, 6-12, 8-10, and a minimum of 9-9, which is improvement and our overall record will have improved or stayed the same ever since.

Extremely unfair comparison. You conveniently forget that BC found the NU 'program' in the deepest of holes, as arguably the single worst college program in D-1 (possibly all sports considered). Incredibly, it took BC all of TWO seasons to win almost half of his B1G games, finishing his 2nd B1G season just ONE GAME under .500. Two seasons later he got NU's first non-losing B1G season (an even .500) since anyone cared to remember. Of course he had ups and down. HOW COULD HE NOT, given the dismal state of the program that he found. But towards the end of his tenure the program had stabilized about 7-8 B1G win per season with an NIT appearance and an incursion in the proverbial "bubble" (with the exception of BC's injury-riddled very last season).

Don't get me wrong. I am not interested in restarting the argument of whether or not BC should have been given another year, and/or whether CC was the right replacement. CC is doing OK. As of today he has accomplished NOTHING his predecessor hadn't (not even the .500 B1G winning percentage) but the season isn't over yet, and he may very well do. With two more regular season wins the cats have a VERY good chance of making the T, and with only one more they have a long shot. But that hasn't happened yet.

For now, CC is doing OK, given that he found a relatively competitive B1G program. He has changed the STYLE of play to one that depends more on raw athleticism, and has done slightly less well (as of today) than BC had been doing (with a completely different style of play and players). Less well, because BC was consistently making the NIT and CC hasn't yet been to any postseason. Perhaps he will make it up for it getting the elusive bid. Perhaps not. We shall soon see.

 

[willycat]

Extremely unfair comparison. You conveniently forget that BC found the NU 'program' in the deepest of holes, as arguably the single worst college program in D-1 (possibly all sports considered). Incredibly, it took BC all of TWO seasons to win almost half of his B1G games, finishing his 2nd B1G season just ONE GAME under .500. Two seasons later he got NU's first non-losing B1G season (an even .500) since anyone cared to remember. Of course he had ups and down. HOW COULD HE NOT, given the dismal state of the program that he found. But towards the end of his tenure the program had stabilized about 7-8 B1G win per season with an NIT appearance and an incursion in the proverbial "bubble" (with the exception of BC's injury-riddled very last season).

Don't get me wrong. I am not interested in restarting the argument of whether or not BC should have been given another year, and/or whether CC was the right replacement. CC is doing OK. As of today he has accomplished NOTHING his predecessor hadn't (not even the .500 B1G winning percentage) but the season isn't over yet, and he may very well do. With two more regular season wins the cats have a VERY good chance of making the T, and with only one more they have a long shot. But that hasn't happened yet.

For now, CC is doing OK, given that he found a relatively competitive B1G program. He has changed the STYLE of play to one that depends more on raw athleticism, and has done slightly less well (as of today) than BC had been doing (with a completely different style of play and players). Less well, because BC was consistently making the NIT and CC hasn't yet been to any postseason. Perhaps he will make it up for it getting the elusive bid. Perhaps not. We shall soon see.

Carmody did not find the roster an empty hole when he took over and the only negative about his firing was that I wasn't done at least 5 years earlier. You did notice how man top Div.I schools came after him after he left, right?

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Things are better, but cue the apologists for taking the exact same arguments and applying them to CC (but somehow, the same arguments don't hold for BC).

Basically it still comes down to talent level.

As I had stated from the start, if CC is going to play straight-up, he not only will have to increase the talent base more than where BC had it, but increase it so that it is in the upper half of the conference.

The 'Cats simply aren't there yet (yeah, there have been some injuries, but every team has injuries, some worse.) and they have been fortunate this season in that a good # of B1G teams are young, playing a boatload of frosh.

Take Penn State, for example.

Being a young team, they are predictably inconsistent, but despite their youth, they have some good wins under their belt (MSU, Minny, Maryland) along with taking Purdue to OT and beating Illinois twice.

Next season, PSU should be much improved and watch out in 2018-19.

Even tho the 'Cats beat the Lions, was impressed by their athleticism and length (if a few more of their shots had gone in, would have been a more interesting game at the end).

This is why it is of great importance for the team to make the NCAAs this season - the initial bump on recruiting upon the coaching change had played its course and recruits now want to see tangible results.

The core of the team (which was CC's 1st class) will be departing after next season (aside from Law) and CC needs to only replace them, but upgrade them.

The staff is in on some very promising recruits and how the team finishes the season could sway some of the recruits one way or the other.

Great post, Katatonic.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Carmody did not find the roster an empty hole when he took over and the only negative about his firing was that I wasn't done at least 5 years earlier. You did notice how man top Div.I schools came after him after he left, right?

Read my post again. I said VERY CLEARLY that I have zero interests in re-arguing BC's firing. My point was simply that you have to evaluate each coach based on the state of the program as he found it, especially its level of competitiveness over the previous seasons (not just the very last one).

If you do not know how absolutely DISMAL the state of the NU BkB program was when BC came in then EDUCATE YOURSELF about it. Of course the roster wasn't empty. But
WHAT HAD THE PROGRAM ACCOMPLISHED in the years prior to BC? HOW COMPETITIVE was it in its league and D-1 generally?
That is what defines the STATE that BC found. It was EXTREMELY DISMAL. Trying to argue the opposite would simply make you seem extremely ill-informed, extremely biased, or more likely BOTH. Don't even try it.

 

[mikewebb68]

Read my post again. I said VERY CLEARLY that I have zero interests in re-arguing BC's firing. My point was simply that you have to evaluate each coach based on the state of the program as he found it, especially its level of competitiveness over the previous seasons (not just the very last one).

If you do not know how absolutely DISMAL the state of the NU BkB program was when BC came in then EDUCATE YOURSELF about it. Of course the roster wasn't empty. But
WHAT HAD THE PROGRAM ACCOMPLISHED in the years prior to BC? HOW COMPETITIVE was it in its league and D-1 generally?
That is what defines the STATE that BC found. It was EXTREMELY DISMAL. Trying to argue the opposite would simply make you seem extremely ill-informed, extremely biased, or more likely BOTH. Don't even try it.

 

[Bwm57]

how this is better than Bill Carmody?

I've heard all the hype, we've got some great players (which we do), we're about to win a record number of games and about to maybe, like many years, almost make it to the NCAA's.

Maybe NU basketball just is about almost making it. It's that when I turn on the TV to watch NU basketball, it is the same old, same old.

I'm not Felis and I'm not "a wish Carmody were still here person." It's that it's been pretty much like this for 17 years at least now. Not unlike NU Football, we just can't seem to break through.

That is actually a very easy question to answer.
Before Collins arrived in Evanston, absolutely no one in the entire country cared one bit about NU basketball except for NU alumni.
Now they do.