Trevor
- Thread starter heet75
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Because Colter was better.
(Apparently, I type this so often that as soon as I typed "Col", the phone suggested the rest)
The complaint? That we played a future NFL starter who leads the league in TDs and has the #4 QBR and is 2-0 BEHIND an athlete that couldn't throw a 15 yard out and whom NFL scouts deemed was a better WR (thereby depriving us of the best talent at two positions). That the excuse was made that it was because our OL sucked and there is no way Trevor could be effective in such a circumstance despite the fact that Trevor is extremely effective when Denver's OL sucks and their RT is a fricking Turnstile.
Basically, the complaint is that our staff did not recognize what they had while John Elway and Gary Kubiak deemed him worthy of a draft pick and ultimately designation of a starter over other QBs that were far more talented than Kain Colter.
Furthermore, a complaint that some individuals here believe our staff beyond reproach and not prone to making mistakes. The fact that our OL assistant still has a job after 9 years of incompetence is just another glaring example of our head coach's occasional inability to get his head out of his ass on a certain topic.
Finally, just because I'm on a roll here, a complaint that Bill Carmody was given 13 years. THIRTEEN FRICKING YEARS FOR PETE'S SAKE.
OK, I'm done.
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IMHO - because injury information in NU football is secret and we know so little - TS was rarely fully healthy at NU.
But that's another 4-star rant by E-Cat and we can expect that he'll rise in the board rantist ratings.
But that's another 4-star rant by E-Cat and we can expect that he'll rise in the board rantist ratings.
Some people don't like a super deadly read option I guess.
Or a right-on-the-money deep ball in a clutch situation:
K C was a dynamic athlete running successfully behind a mediocre line.
T S was a great pocket passer getting killed behind a mediocre line.
T S was a great pocket passer getting killed behind a mediocre line.
20 yard wobble in the air (Colter's longest throw ever, admittedly in stride), and 60+ YAC by Ebert. Not exactly deep.
You are comparing Carmody not getting to the dance in 13 years to Fitz not winning a BIG championship of some sort? Wow. You can get to the dance and still finish 6th or 7th in the BIG and while I loved the 2000 team, that championship team was 6-2 in the BIG (something Fitz did in 2015) and lost its bowl game by 49 points( and Barnett's two title winners also lost in post season). Let's get real with the expectations!
Why do people keep citing this play as a great pass? It was right on the money and caught Ebert in stride, but it looked like a wobbly pass from an Army option QB that throws 5 times a game, or maybe a pass you see on Fridays.
It was a great play though, I love watching it, but to use it to as evidence that Colter is a great passer is just weird.
Do we really care how "pretty" the ball is if it hits the receiver "right on the money" and "in stride?"
Don't think anyone is trying to say Colter was a "great passer." The argument is more "he was good enough with his arm to present sufficient threat in the passing game to keep the run game extremely efficient, plus he made a ton of improvised plays with his legs by scrambling out of broken pockets."
watching those plays is kind of like bizarro world compared to our current offense. I think we'd all like Mick McCall to be a bit swifter in adjusting his offense, but to claim that he doesn't adjust scheme to players is nonsense. Kain was running triple option attacks from multiple different angles. we tried option more frequently early on in Clayton's career, but now it's clearly more of a dropback / standard spread PA offense, with CT just getting a handful of runs per game to keep the defense honest, and those come largely in downhill read option keepers rather than lateral speed or spread option plays.
he is by no means an "A" play caller, but I think he is somewhere in the mid to low B range. not ahead of the curve or super innovative, but he does adjust plays scheme and personnel to fit his talent over time. that's not a ringing endorsement, but I don't think he's in the "let's fire him" range right now. plus he's probably higher than that as a developer of QBs, which is his secondary (but also important) role.
I stand by the view that our offensive issues against Duke were largely due to execution and happened despite his attempts to adjust scheme.
Nice analysis. Much easier to call plays when the OL can actually make blocks.
After 2 games Trevor has better blocking than last year in Denver, as well as a better understanding of what to do on each play. I wish he had better blocking while at NU, I wish for that every year.
Old school run blocking and pass protection fundamentals seem to be underdeveloped in college with more spread and tempo based offensive schemes.
There have been a number of recent articles on how what works in College Football doesn't work in the NFL and vice versa, focusing on offensive schemes and the development of OL and QB play prior to arriving in the NFL.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...more-fun-than-the-nfl/?utm_term=.cdc07e340681
Old school run blocking and pass protection fundamentals seem to be underdeveloped in college with more spread and tempo based offensive schemes.
There have been a number of recent articles on how what works in College Football doesn't work in the NFL and vice versa, focusing on offensive schemes and the development of OL and QB play prior to arriving in the NFL.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...more-fun-than-the-nfl/?utm_term=.cdc07e340681
And I still would have played a future NFL Starter ahead of him (and immediately upgraded the WR Corp by putting his legs and playmaking to better use). Who is performing despite having an OL that relatively speaking is even worse than NU's. Playing Colter and sitting Siemian did not get our best 11 on the field. Period.
And you'd have an optionless, ineffective running game with our OL, even with Venric Mark at RB. Consequently, any play-action would be ineffective, and Trevor would be blitzed constantly behind a porous OL.
Now, you're just being ridiculous. Having a read option attack isn't the only way to run. This myth that somehow we could not play normal football because our OL was so bad is just BS. Our OL is no better than it was back in the day, but we have Clayton Thorson playing the way we should have had Siemian play back in the day. Our OL is worse today, yet JJTBC still gets his carries without the read option. Siemian has far less time to throw at Denver than he ever did at NU. He's as pressured as he has ever been. Bronco nation calls his fricking RT a turnstile. Denver's OL is as relatively ineffective and weak as NU's ever was (behind the likes of Al Netter and Brandon Vitabile, mind you) and is thriving on the ground, precisely since Trevor is opening up the field. Last year, in Kubiak's conservative scheme, defenses would sell out to stop the run. And they did. Now Denver all of a sudden has the leading rusher in the league after 2 games. Play action works exactly because the defense is playing to stop the pass. You obviously never heard of a gentleman by the name of Air Coryell. You don't run to open up the pass. You pass to open up the run. Read option with no ability to threaten downfield kills the basic benefits of the spread. The spread is supposed to prevent the D from selling out on any where in the field, and to get the ball into playmaker hands with open space. With no downfield threat, teams stacked the box on us regularly, and thus limiting the spread to the horizontal dimension only. Anyone who saw the 3 quarters of offensive futility against Army should understand the limitations of our scheme with Colter against a medicore defense that sells out to stop it. Everyone recalls some offensive juggernaut getting us to the Outback, when in fact it was our vaunted D. And often Trevor Siemian had to come off the bench to relieve the ineffective Colter and pass our way back into games. Syracuse comes to mind. No way we put up 40+ on ND with Colter. We won with 20 ppg, and assume that there was some sort of trade off in number of points scored vs. number points given up. Alabama and Ohio State beg to differ. Newsflash: you CAN have a great defense AND an explosive offense. At least if you follow Bama and dOSU's lead by putting their NFL Talent on the field instead of on the bench behind someone playing out of their natural position. The D was our strength during the Colter years. Imagine if we had a powerful offense to go with it. That's why I think it was a shame we didn't have all of our best offensive assets on the field with all of our weaponry at hand. Outback win and 10 wins, schmothing. We should have contended for a title that year.
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I don't know what games you're watching but the OL is absolutely still the weakest part of the entire team, and their OL is NOT protecting Siemian very well at all. Bronco Nation would laugh at your notion that it is much improved - if anything, they laud a single OL (Garrett Boles). And mind you, Trevor was passing for 300+ yards on multiple occasions and winning AFC Player of the Week last year with that shambles of an OL.
The blocking back when Siemian and Colter played is no worse than it is today. In fact, I'd argue, that our OL is the worst it's ever been at this point. And yet, we aren't running read option and sitting Thorson on the bench behind Alviti. And are still capable of putting up 40+ points. Imagine that.
This myth needs to stop. If you're going to argue for the read option because the OL sucks, then we should just play Alviti and play read option until Cushing gets canned. So, all these people who somehow think the only answer for a shitty OL is to play read option answer me this. Why aren't we playing read option now? Is our OL any less shitty than it was before? Is Thorson that much better than current Denver Bronco starter and #4 rated QB in the League Trevor Siemian?
People think that somehow our offensive scheme during the Colter years contributed to our winning ways. I think if people look at the ppg and compared it to where we were when Bacher the relative statue presided over the O, or today with Thorson looking to (and able) to beat you with the pass more than with the run, they'll come to the realization that our offense was actually largely ineffective, that we won because of our nation leading defense, and we actually won IN SPITE of the offense, not because of it. And I don't think it had to be that way.
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Wow! Classic ECat horrible recall! Too many mistakes, too little time or interest.
Someone should explain hindsight bias...don't get me wrong, I'm not volunteering, but someone should.
Someone perhaps should, but there were many voices back in the day who decried the personnel decisions at QB. These flaws in judgment were as boneheaded to more than a few back then as they are today. This is not a new topic at all. It's just being rekindled as we are reminded with Siemian's successes at the next level how outrageous the personnel mistakes really were.
Hindsight bias will be equally as relevant in the future when Cushing is canned, we hire a competent OL coach, the OL becomes a strength of the team, and people talk about how poor the OL was back in the day (hint, it will have nothing to do with hindsight then either). I'm nothing if not hopeful.
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And here's another gem!
For example, Denver is currently a solid #1 in the NFL in team rushing per game (159 yards per game). Yeah, their OL really sucks this year so far. Denver's running takes a LOT of pressure off of Trevor in the passing game. Granted, the temporary loss of Bolles hurts them a bit and they still have an issue with pass blocking at RT, but their OG's are much improved over last year. Meanwhile, the OL guys they dumped from last year are giving away more sacks on other teams than Jewel.
This reminds me of the people who talk about Colter being a gifted passer because of his accuracy on short throws. Talk about missing the picture.
Anyone who is following Broncos football knows how bad the OL has been and that it's been the weakest link on the team. Especially in pass pro. Read up on the Broncos forums. The only OL playing at a high level at this point was Bolles.
Find where anyone wrote that Colter was "a gifted passer". A very accurate passer on short throws, most definitely. By the way, Trevor's accuracy on short throws and seam routes is how he's made such a stir so far this year. Most of his pass yardage is YAC. Of course, he's capable of throwing long as well.
Those are the same forums that claim Trevor has no arm, a low ceiling. and thought Lynch should be the starter, right?
Denver has given up a few sacks (6), but you fail to realize how important Denver's rushing attack has been in relieving pressure on Trevor this year. Huge difference from last year!
Maybe the many voices back in the day decrying the personnel decisions at QB were from boneheads.
I think you and perhaps katatonic are the only ones here who feel we should have played Colter at some position other than QB.
I think we all need to just realize and accept that Ecat doesn't like unions and the rest is fake news.
NFL and college are completely different. Using the Broncos as an argument for Trevor (who rn is my fav NFL player all the respect and hope for him) is a mute point. It has no reflect on him as a college quarterback. The read option was the most deadly part of our offense that year. Kain is one of the more dynamic athletes I've seen at NU. Combine that with Mark's speed and explosiveness. That was our bread and butter especially in the red zone. Let's look forward to when Trevor started, 5 and 7. Trevor's fault not in the slightest. Trevor wasn't healthy till the ND game. That's when we finally saw a healthy Trevor and what he could do. All before that with the bad oline he was hampered with injuries and lost a lot of his mobility. Colter was the better choice that year as talented as Trevor was. NU just couldn't get the personnel to let Trevor thrive.
I'm still trying to recall our victory in the Outback Bowl.
Um...30 yards on a dime, but whatever floats your boat. It must suck to hate NU players so much. You're like an Iowa fan.
And likely would have seen far fewer wins and seen him destroyed physically. But I guess you are all for that because he was a future NFL QB and we all know the coaches job is not to get wins but to....
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