I can't speak for him but I'm pretty sure he separates NU athletics from NU as a whole.
Vassar's allegations
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I can't speak for him but I'm pretty sure he separates NU athletics from NU as a whole.
I have no dog in your silly fight with Yesterdays, but this makes no sense at all. NU is an enormous institution. Just because Johnnie feels some parts of the athletic department are screwing him over doesn't mean that getting a degree from the rest of the university isn't his best chance at setting himself up for the rest of his life.
How do you know that Johnnie is bright and tough. A tough BB player would have not announced that he was about to transfer because he wasn't good enough to play. he would have stuck it out and did what he said he wanted to do, transfer out. You have absolutely no prof that CC "pushed out anyone. Kids leave programs all of the time because they feel that they are not playing or starting, etc. Johnnie could be a good man or maybe not. Red flag= four high schools in 4 years.
He got lots of gold stars on the board in early grade school, and he stood up to playground bullies.
there have been more than a handful of athletes who have fulfilled their work study with the grounds crew or in the weight room
No, but if you respond often and logically enough he will put you on ignore so his head will not implode.
Thanks for posting.
I don't get allowing him to transfer anywhere but another Big 10 school. Not that he would have had an offer, but if he's not good enough to be the 13th man at NU why restrict his options on other Big 10 teams? Seems petty.
I think its standard practice for schools to not allow transfers within conference for most athletes.
I know it is. But I think NU should have broken the mold. Michigan relented for Spike Albrecht and he ended up at Purdue this season. Not that it would have made much different int he Vassar case but would have added to NU taking the "high ground".
Albrecht was a graduate transfer so he didn't need Michigan's permission to go to Purdue. But I agree with you NU should let Vassar transfer anywhere he wants.
Would it set a precedent that others could use against the program? "You let so and so go but you don't like me so you are just being punitive or you are prejudice against me because I'm from Mars, etc?
If a coach can move within a conference, a player should be able to as well. JV is on the right side here when it comes to the structural issues and broader hypocrisy of the NCAA. Bo Ryan took a lot of heat a few years before Beilein for trying to stop Jarrod Uthoff from going to Iowa, and both coaches were wrong, imo.
It would but so what. NU should just do the "right" thing even if it might hurt. If the fit between the school and the player isn't right, both sides should move on.
That's probably a concern. Also, since teams in the same conference face each other more often (up to 4 times in a season, considering conference T and postseason) there is a greater worry about having to change plays, etc because of an intra-conf transfer.
Additionally, the conference doesn't want its top programs to use the lower-div teams as de facto minor league affiliates, from which top programs periodically "call up" players to satisfy their needs. That would just make conferences even more unbalanced than they already are. This concern also applies throughout the NCAA (which is one of the reasons a transferring player doesn't play for one season) but it is magnified within a conference, since teams within a conference are often physically near each other, have similarly TV access, etc (moving to a distant location may be a transfer deterrent to a player, especially if his family won't be able to watch his games on TV).
I think that these points are very good but I also think we are distracting ourselves from the alleged behavior of our program in Vassar's case.
We have a winning team with a bright future so nobody's quite comfortable talking about the methods that the program deployed to get around the four-year scholie. We probably don't want to confront the question of 'if we are finally a tourney team, was it okay if we trampled our ethics to get there?' These allegations by Vassar are not the only fishy activities by the program.
I'm not sure if I would drop my love for NU basketball even if every allegation were true but it is not simply a matter of following NCAA rules for me, either.
What other "fishy activities" have there been? Been quite awhile since Carmody ran off Coble....
I disagree. I do not think NU should do the right thing but the beneficial thing for NU.
If one of our kids goes to a conference opponent could he not give information on the players he left behind - their strengths and weaknesses - even more that can be seen on tape? Coaching tendencies, okay, Collins coming out of a timeout with 10 seconds left, more than half the time he will run this play...
We don't need that. Let him go anywhere but not to a school we will play (sometimes twice a season!).
Possibly 3 times (2 reg-season + conf-T) or even 4 (2 reg-season + conf-T + post-season-T)
If you don't think Big 10 coaches know all of these things without relying on a transfer, you're underestimating their coaching ability.
This thing has been going on sooo long I have forgotten the real deal. Was Vassar pushed out? and if so he has chosen to not move on because a) he valued an NU education over all others b) no one in the college basketball universe wanted him c) he is spiteful and seeks revenge and or justice d) has girlfriend close by e) other
Or did he leave on his own volition? and all the same choices.
Seems to me someone somewhere would have wanted him on their basketball team
Or did he leave on his own volition? and all the same choices.
Seems to me someone somewhere would have wanted him on their basketball team
Had he possessed the point guard skill of, say, Darius Clemmons in his prime a whole bunch of schools would have wanted him.
I think we need to be careful about this subject because there's a considerable amount that is unknown. The new media piece that is upthread sheds a little more light on the family's position and perspective.
One can argue that if the family did not put education as a top priority he would be gone from campus and the scholarship would be open. Perhaps that's selfish, but that is a good selfish given the family history. I don't like the lawsuit and be careful what accusations you throw around, but the kid signed up to get a sheepskin and he's getting the NU sheepskin.
There's been an effort to pin this on Collins and paint him a different color. I don't see it so continuing to throw that out there says more about the accuser than the coach.
Did Vasser get nudged...pushed...shoved? Yep. Probably. And then the institution stepped in and made sure his education was, as Al Gore said, in a lock box.
Did some jag bag in the athletic department try to mess with that scholly? Could be, and then the institution stepped in and confirmed the lock box was secure. The facts as presented on this latter aspect need to be investigated for the protection of all student athletes in all sports at NU.
There is some irony on both sides....
* The kid points to Mike Turner as evidence of NU Creaning. I believe Mike hung around a couple years for free and got his degree. Not a bad deal, and one you don't find at Indiana or other basketball factories;
* The kids detractors point to his wanderlust, fives schools in two years (or whatever). But the big issue today is that the kid won't pack his bags and go.
The team really hasn't been effected and the kid is getting his degree so it's not the most horrible situation since the wicked witch stole the ruby red slippers.
That's why a few posts back I posted a link to an article that describes the situation fairly well. It's in this post:
https://northwestern.forums.rivals.com/threads/vassars-allegations.28911/page-3#post-385795
Collins doesn't seem to be invested in Creaning like, well, Crean. Which is good. Crean will do anything to open up scholies. Collins doesn't want to destroy a kid but he really wants to open up the scholie. So there's a big difference, I think. The program methodically and cleverly went through multiple methods to open up Vassar's scholie. It all seems to be within the NCAA rules. Was it fair and ethical? That's a different standard that every NU fan has to decide whether or not it matters.
Besides Turner and Vassar, others left the program after Collins arrived but they capitulated whereas Johnnie did not. We conspicuously hear nothing from them because... well can you guess why? Bonus points if you get it right.
Because there was nothing to report, except all was done on the up and up. On the other hand, Vassar used a basketball schlorship but choose not play basketball. Then sues the institution that pays for his education
Nope, wrong answer. They evidently all signed nondisclosure agreements, which would explain the silence.
Liberman and Ajou!? Lol. They also "capitulated" at their following school, ironically.
Ajou now gets 10 mpg at an NAIA school. Not even sure if Liberman is playing anywhere.
I remember Carmody clearing house when he first got here...but nobody cared.
And both did so willingly. Non-disclosire agreements exist to protect both the school AND the student...
You forget Kale left too. It's not just two guys or three. Aren't we at five guys now, four of whom were on multi-year scholies?
Nobody says it's wrong. It's more of a question of how comfortable you are with these tactics.
Kale left because of playing time. He had nothing negative to say about Collins on his departure. BTW...how have things worked out for him at Drake?
Ajou had no business being on bball scholarship. Collins made it clear he'd never have much chance to play and so he transferred...twice.
Liberman was a walkon. He's since transferred twice as well.
Turner was, well, ahem...
Carmody did the same thing when he took over. Then he left CC with a lot of dead weight upon his departure...
I will say this. Collin's players love him...
Apparently, that's true until they're told, "You suck and you will never play here". Of course, we don't know for sure what precipitated that remark but one can speculate.
Vasser should have promptly transferred or shut up and stuck with the program. I have no sympathy for him for pulling this loophole garbage for a free ride. Boo hoo! He had to rake leaves (for $150/hour). Sheesh!
Kale now plays for Duquesne as a grad transfer
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...nother-graduate-transfer/stories/201604190086
I distinguish between the basketball program and the athletic administration. The latter oversees the former and ensures that all university and ncaa rules are strictly followed.
I've read the complaint and my perspective is that the coaches did nothing wrong. Were they intense pricks at times? Yes, but well within the norms of D1 bball programs and not outside the lines of NU athletics. When they came to the conclusion that Vassar was a bad apple (in their opinion) they wanted him off the team and out of the school, and they wanted their scholarship back. Which hardly makes this an exceptional case. Unless some new facts are shared, there just isn't a whole lot of shade to throw at Collins.
The athletic department is something else altogether. It's their job to ensure that the full concept of student athlete is realized, not to help push a kid out so that a scholly can be used. The complaint contains serious accusations about athletic department personnel that need to be looked into...as in investigated. And then let the chips fall where they may.
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