It is hard to see how these allegations, even if true (which I doubt) constitute a legal cause of action, especially one for antitrust. There is no sense to be made in what I am reading.
Vassar's allegations
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And you know this how? Many, many coaches have disagreements with players (Kevin Coble, anyone?)
I'm no Carmody hater, but please spare us the fiction that players never transferred or were run off over, as mikewebb referenced, a trip to Italy.
I do think corrective action needs to be taken if Collins is engaging in "Creaning," which is antithetical to what NU should be about.
I do think corrective action needs to be taken if Collins is engaging in "Creaning," which is antithetical to what NU should be about.
Don't hate the player, hate the game. As long as it's not illegal, it's an NCAA issue. Sucks that's how it is, but dems da breaks.
He's the same guy that called Phillips a "pussy". His only interest is to see NU bball fail over old bitterness.
In the end, this is very little to this whole situation. I'm more disappointed that Vasser, after being accomidated with an academic scholarship, would do this.
I already went down this road on another site, so I'll try to keep it short. However, let's make sure we understand the true facts of NU's history with players before we say this is a complete change for NU. I dare anyone to find me another program where so many players "left the team" but stayed in school as they did during the BC era - a complete oddity in college basketball, but somehow it was petty normal during the BC era. How about the several who completely "quit the sport?" Another basketball oddity. Sure, it had nothing to do with coaching in the past.
But that is always conveniently ignored as well as the list of players shown the door - especially at the beginning of the BC regime (which happens everywhere but some want to make it "a thing.")
It's so obvious there are many of the CBC acolytes turning this into another excuse to bash CCC.
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It really is. That and the youngins over at InsideNU desperately want this to be some degree of true for the "big time NCAA sports exploiting players" angle.I already went down this road on another site, so I'll try to keep it short. However, let's make sure we understand the true facts of NU's history with players before we say this is a complete change for NU. I dare anyone to find me another program where so many players "left the team" but stayed in school as they did during the BC era. But that is always conveniently ignored as well as the list of players shown the door - especially at the beginning of the BC regime (which happens everywhere but some want to make it "a thing.")
It's so obvious there are many of the CBC acolytes turning this into another excuse to bash CCC.
Yea, screw the case and damn the legal process. Just a sham to line the pockets of those fat cat lawyers! I'm an informed human being, and I can tell from this fair and balanced release that Collins is an absolute trash human being. This is bigly disappointing. Sad!
Very small rocks! Churches! Great gravy!Yea, screw the case and damn the legal process. Just a sham to line the pockets of those fat cat lawyers! I'm an informed human being, and I can tell from this fair and balanced release that Collins is an absolute trash human being. This is bigly disappointing. Sad!
NU and CCC have been pretty much been tried, convicted and strung up on the gallows on that other web site that covers NU sports, primarily with student writers. The "journalists" there penned a really flimsy column on the culture change at NU and all the young-un posters jumped on the crucifixion bandwagon. I guess it's to be expected. Experience over the years tends to aging folks like me the benefit of patience and withholding judgment.
If only our front four could rush the passer like some people rush to judgment.
If only our front four could rush the passer like some people rush to judgment.
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I don't know what the real issue is here. If you honored his ability to go to school on scholarship, (same economics) you are honoring your commitment. Whether someone plays or gets to be on the team seems outside the issue..
It does seem that his beef is with the NCAA not NU regarding transferring. It is not in NU's ability to either get another school to take him, or to get the NCAA to allow him to play.
If the athletic department was trying to frame the kid for some infraction, then that is an issue that should be addressed, and figure out who did what.
I would be careful of accepting the lawyers assessment of the situation at face value. The lawyers often put out misleading information to the public to leverage a settlement, figuring the large public institution does not want bad publicity. As there are rarely ever any sanctions on Lawyers for providing false information in the press (or even in court) there is a tremendous incentive to make misleading statements as there is little downside.
It does seem that his beef is with the NCAA not NU regarding transferring. It is not in NU's ability to either get another school to take him, or to get the NCAA to allow him to play.
If the athletic department was trying to frame the kid for some infraction, then that is an issue that should be addressed, and figure out who did what.
I would be careful of accepting the lawyers assessment of the situation at face value. The lawyers often put out misleading information to the public to leverage a settlement, figuring the large public institution does not want bad publicity. As there are rarely ever any sanctions on Lawyers for providing false information in the press (or even in court) there is a tremendous incentive to make misleading statements as there is little downside.
Just got banned from InsideNU! Hooray for kids who can't take criticism!
Now I feel left out.
Which comment got you banned? I need a good role model...
Should I go back over there and try the nuclear option? Really tempting...
I love the belief that you can make an omelette without breaking any eggs but that ship sailed in college athletics decades ago. By all accounts, Collins is a decent guy who is doing what he is paid to do, win basketball games. Same thing Carmody did before him. I really liked Carmody because gave me hilarious answers to questions I asked him about facilities over the years and I thought (and it has been confirmed) he is a pretty decent basketball Coach. But I also am starting to like Collins and I have not heard a bad thing about him yet.
I sarcastically stated under the NU press release article that we don't need due process and that we all know based on the complaint that Collins is the scum of the Earth. Styled it with Trumpisms. Wouldn't be surprised if that's what got me banned. Pretty sure that violates their "safe space" rule. I'm a lurker and rarely post, so that could be it, too.
c'est la vie
Running players off the team is one thing - it makes a mockery of the idea of the "student-athlete," of course, but that hasn't been a legit concept in decades. It's incredibly common throughout college basketball and happened here under previous coaches, as you say. I accept this as the cost of doing business. (Not all of the methods, though. Humiliating a 19 year old by making him do manual labor in front of his teammates shouldn't be acceptable, though of course we don't have all of the context here.)
Acts of fraud intended to create justifications for pulling a scholarship, on the other hand, are both illegal and unacceptable. If the time card story is true, everyone involved with it should lose their jobs. The same would be true if BC was still the coach.
They're students. I'd much prefer student journalists taking the side of a fellow student and railing against the administration than the alternative. So them make some mistakes while doing it. All part of the process.
Interesting piece in the Trib this morning about Eddie Vrdolyak (sp?). Don't know if anybody else noticed the connection. Seems that the firm that was to pay him big $$ from the tobacco case now represents Johnnie V in this "antitrust" case. What does it mean? Just sayin...
Agreed. I wasn't quite that much of a bleeder back in my piss and vinegar days, more an angry young man who lacked the patience to take the long view. But, yeah, the first site of injustice typically caused a visceral reaction that could only be satisfied with blood (or a good brawl).
And grabbers of such.
I also thought the Inside NU column was dumb and a ham-handed attempt at criticizing a system that actually deserves plenty of criticism. Calling Vassar the recruit that epitomizes Collins' tenure? Come on. That said, student writers are students who are paying full freight to attend NU and get better at journalism, and most on this board wouldn't personally attack student-athletes in some of the terms seen here. Some dispensation may be in order. (My username gives away my sympathies.)
I would've done the same thing when I was in school. I also agree that it's a process and that they do a great job of running a successful and engaging publication as students. In this case I'd like them to respect due process and only report what they know as fact, or, alternatively, label pieces that report "what they think they know" or "their opinion" as opinion pieces. The culture change article, in particular, makes a few claims and assertions about the culture of the program, Collins, and those that have left the program without offering much evidence (besides the complaint) to support such conclusions. Cases like this put the reputations and jobs of several people on the line and should be handled responsibly.
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The issue is what Collins thinks is OK to do to get his hands back on the scholarship slot that was occupied by Vassar. It is not just about the economics of the situation.
We will probably never hear how this played out, but it's within the realm of reason that on his officially leaving the basketball team Northwestern may have put Vassar into the "work/study" pool, as is typical of folks receiving financial aid from the university. At the beginning of the academic year there are all kinds of work/study jobs available some very interesting and professionally rewarding. But the best ones are taken quickly leaving a somewhat less desirable pool of jobs including helping out the landscapers, etc by mid-year when Vassar may have needed a "job."
Having done (and enjoyed!) several jobs which would count as "manual labor" in my life, I think some of us (and Vassar's lawyers) are unfairly inferring/implying that doing a job which involves using your hands beyond typing on a computer should be a source of embarrassment. The vast majority of people do not keep doing their jobs for fun during their free time -- they do their jobs because they are paid -- so the difference between the best and worst jobs, especially when taking pay out of consideration, is a matter of degree.
This is what I was thinking was the more likely scenario. Going from an athletic to an academic scholarship meant having to do some sort of work study job where the work was not so glarmous---by today's standards. Now when I was a teen, I pulled weeds, dug holes, bagged leaves, cut lawns, cleaned grease traps, fixed broken windows, took out trash (tons of it), washed dishes, washed cars, and shoveled proverbial $hit to make money, never questioning my role at the time. Times have changed.
Work-study isn't supposed to include landscaping jobs. It's supposed to help students mitigate the cost of attendance by providing students with work opportunities related to academic majors/interests. Of course, NU, like many other schools, skirts these requirements through the "less desirable" jobs you describe, but those jobs are not supposed to be work-study jobs.
There's nothing wrong with manual labor! It's vital work and we should do right by our laborers. But the complaint states outright that other positions were available and NU refused to allow him into any of those jobs. I don't know what the "Wildcat Internship Program" is - and Googling the phrase only brings up this complaint, so if it does exist, it exists under a different name - but "internships" should not involve picking up trash and leaves. The university should not be using unpaid student labor for tasks like that when they could be paying actual workers.
This question is ridiculous enough that it doesn't really deserve an answer, but:
No. Obviously not. The descriptions of Vassar's basketball ability alone are patently ludicrous. But the allegations about the program are serious enough that they warrant investigation and not just blanket dismissal.
I agree that it warrants investigation. Until then...this is all smoke. I'm anxious for the truth to come to light.
To go back to the original point of Collins bashing, want to make a bet on whether Collins was involved with the job or the time cards?
If he even made a phone call to inquire about anything regarding the "work study," I might fire him. It's too stupid and he should know better than to get involved at that level.
In the meantime, we agree about the time cards and that has more than assistant ADs written all over it.
