Collins will be getting lots of calls

[wildcatpn]

I’ll bite: how would he have been gone?

95% of ADs would've fired him after he went 26-71 in the BIG during the 5 years after the initial tourney year.

Most would have before he even got to the 5th year.

I was joking that Gragg probably should've fired him but didn't because he's terrible at his job.

 

[JimStarr777]

95% of ADs would've fired him after he went 26-71 in the BIG during the 5 years after the initial tourney year.

Most would have before he even got to the 5th year.

I was joking that Gragg probably should've fired him but didn't because he's terrible at his job.

Not at a school like NU where there was literally no history of winning. That single, incredible NCAA tourney appearance bought him enough time, and look where we are now.

 

[SDakaGordie]

I just mean that expressing an opinion on a board doesn't carry any real weight and so we don't go through an extensive thought process when making a declaration on here (god, at least I hope not after reading the stuff around here).

That’s quite an indictment of most all of the other board members, especially when we discussed the issue ad nauseum. I will not agree with saying it’s just board talk and it’s meaningless / thoughtless when it’s repeatedly said.

 

[IGNORE2]

Not at a school like NU where there was literally no history of winning. That single, incredible NCAA tourney appearance bought him enough time, and look where we are now.

Among those 95% are lots of school without a history of winning. And for the amount being paid in salary, they absolutely would.

 

[IGNORE2]

That’s quite an indictment of most all of the other board members, especially when we discussed the issue ad nauseum. I will not agree with saying it’s just board talk and it’s meaningless / thoughtless when it’s repeatedly said.

Hello Mr Pot

 

[IGNORE2]

Not at a school like NU where there was literally no history of winning. That single, incredible NCAA tourney appearance bought him enough time, and look where we are now.

Go ahead and show me how this list is all schools with a MBB history of winning:

Full list of D1 men’s college basketball coaches fired in 2024

We’re keeping track of all of the firings/retirements taking place across D1 men’s hoops.

dknetwork.draftkings.com

 

[IGNORE2]

Not at a school like NU where there was literally no history of winning. That single, incredible NCAA tourney appearance bought him enough time, and look where we are now.

Should we play the same game w PF or does NU have a history of winning - asking for a couple of friends named Barnett and Walker

 

[Katatonic]

I still don’t understand this Duke thing. As I have pointed out, the only guards he recruited after McIntosh over a four year period were Ash, Brown, Gaines and Greer. All well below the top 100. That’s what killed the program’s momentum. He recruited lower rated guys because he had to. I think he is more focused on recruiting more wings and guards with more of an overall game than earlier in his career but I guaranty you he will happily recruit top 100 guys again if he thinks he has a chance. Most 2-stars don’t develop like Martinelli.

Don't think it was so much lower rated PGs, but rather missing on them for one reason or another (and under-recruiting guards).

After all, aside from Law, most of the best players under CC were those lower ranked.

If CC had a Sobo at PG with Law, Pardon, Lindsay and Shelly - that would have been, at worst, an NIT team.

But agree on the other stuff.

Martinelli and Hunger also don’t really fit the “defense first” mentality. Both have higher upside on offensive end. Collins has been recruiting the best players he can and still is. This is what pretty much every coach does. Collins will continue to recruit the players he thinks are the best without regard for stars. Coaches don’t pay attention to the recruiting websites and rankings, they watch the tape and listen to their networks. There wasn’t some massive change in philosophy.

Think his philosophy has changed some.

For a while, CC was preoccupied with building a team around a stretch 3/4.

Now, he's back to having the guards lead the team and surrounding them with "dawgs."

 

[Katatonic]

How does a mediocre coach bring a team when no basketball history, academic restrictions, and one that plays in a historic conference to its first ever tournament appearance? He didn’t forget how to coach during those seasons he also didn’t go away from defense during those seasons or Young would have started over Nance and Beran would have had less minutes, which the board hated.

Collins deserves criticism for his culture building and ego management as he lost the team in the 2017 season amidst not having a true home court and had to rebuild it from there. We don’t need to make up points to criticize him. He’s had up and down seasons at NU. I also think early on he took the air out of the ball too early in late game situations. He went from a good coach to a great coach. There’s always room for improvement and always something to do better, but a mediocre coach doesn’t accomplish what Collins accomplished. You also don’t go from mediocre to great in one season.

I will give Bill Carmody credit for building NU to the point where a top head coaching candidate like Collins would take a chance at NU. I think he was decent coach who really raised the floor of the NU hoops program. However Carmody’s last season NU finished with a losing record only ahead of PSU in the standings and had no players with any all B1G honors. (Hearn was an honorable mention). Let’s not pretend that the program was left in great place. There’s a reason Carmody got let go. Collins earned that “new budget”, new arena, and state of the art facilities from the tournament season.

Let go of Carmody and just enjoy the program going to places it never had before. It’s been a fun two seasons. Last year was the most fun team to watch NU has ever had in my time watching. This year, healthy, had the highest ceiling of any NU team ever. Just enjoy it.

Coaching is not a constant - coaches often change philosophies, make good/bad assistant hires (as we saw with Fitz) over their tenures, become better coaches from their experiences, etc.

We have seen plenty of coaches who got fired from a gig early in their career, only to find success later as they grow as a coach.

We have also seen coaches get immediate success, but then hit a major nosedive.

The 5 yr losing stretch bwtn Tourney appearances was mediocre to say the least, especially when it wasn't like CC was starting all over.

He still had the core of his Tourney team returning and then Law, Pardon and Skelly in their prime.

CC, himself, stated that it wasn't the best coaching job from him and that looking back, he would've done things differently.

What was really inexplicable was CC abandoning the team/roster construction that led to the 1st Tourney appearance and becoming overly infatuated with building a team around stretch 3s/4s.

BC's last season was marred by losing Crawford and then later Swop, with also Hearn missing some time and Cobb's suspension.

A starting 5 of Cobb, Hearn, Crawford, Olah and Swop would have been the most balanced team BC ever had, and definitely the best defensively with everyone but a frosh Olah being a plus defender.

There's no need for me to let go of BC, as I have stated that he should have been let go earlier if the administration wasn't going to support him (both with regard to facilities and operating on a 1 yr renewal which hurt tecruiting).

And even if BC had been the one to take the Cats to the Tourney first - whether that be the Juice, Shurna, Crawford and Coble team or if the Swop team had stayed healthy and eligible, I would have been fine with eventually departing with BC because there were limits to his system.

I like CC (which is why I had stated early, early on that don't think he would leave NU for even Dook), but with there have definitely been rough patches with his success.

How would you feel if there was another 5 year stretch of losing after Boo leavrs?

Don't think that's going to happen as think CC has really found his footing as a coach, so think a Tourney appearance (maybe 2 every once in a while) every recruiting cycle is a real possibility (which would turn CC from being a very good coach to a legend).

But also think there are other coaches out there who can achieve similar results.

 

[clarificationcat]

Don't think it was so much lower rated PGs, but rather missing on them for one reason or another (and under-recruiting guards).

After all, aside from Law, most of the best players under CC were those lower ranked.

If CC had a Sobo at PG with Law, Pardon, Lindsay and Shelly - that would have been, at worst, an NIT team.

But agree on the other stuff.





Think his philosophy has changed some.

For a while, CC was preoccupied with building a team around a stretch 3/4.

Now, he's back to having the guards lead the team and surrounding them with "dawgs."

I think at best they would have been a NIT team. We generally beat good teams when McIntosh played well. There is no way they go the tournament without him. He made that whole thing go from the minute he got here. And he and Lindsey has some B1G offers. They both came on late.

And I don’t know if he was preoccupied with stretch 4’s. He recruited Falzon and then Beran a few years later. Nance was recruited on potential. I think he would take a chance on him every time and figure out where to play him one he gets here.

I agree he under recruited guards for a while. Not anymore. I am not sure if any of them are good but we will have a lot of them. I am concerned we have nobody but Hunger after next year but hopefully he finds a couple more bigs somewhere.

 

[IGNORE2]

Don't think it was so much lower rated PGs, but rather missing on them for one reason or another (and under-recruiting guards).

After all, aside from Law, most of the best players under CC were those lower ranked.

If CC had a Sobo at PG with Law, Pardon, Lindsay and Shelly - that would have been, at worst, an NIT team.

But agree on the other stuff.





Think his philosophy has changed some.

For a while, CC was preoccupied with building a team around a stretch 3/4.

Now, he's back to having the guards lead the team and surrounding them with "dawgs."

Sobieski was a SG and played out of position.

 

[GatoLouco]

Coaching is not a constant - coaches often change philosophies, make good/bad assistant hires (as we saw with Fitz) over their tenures, become better coaches from their experiences, etc.

We have seen plenty of coaches who got fired from a gig early in their career, only to find success later as they grow as a coach.

We have also seen coaches get immediate success, but then hit a major nosedive.

The 5 yr losing stretch bwtn Tourney appearances was mediocre to say the least, especially when it wasn't like CC was starting all over.

He still had the core of his Tourney team returning and then Law, Pardon and Skelly in their prime.

CC, himself, stated that it wasn't the best coaching job from him and that looking back, he would've done things differently.

What was really inexplicable was CC abandoning the team/roster construction that led to the 1st Tourney appearance and becoming overly infatuated with building a team around stretch 3s/4s.

BC's last season was marred by losing Crawford and then later Swop, with also Hearn missing some time and Cobb's suspension.

A starting 5 of Cobb, Hearn, Crawford, Olah and Swop would have been the most balanced team BC ever had, and definitely the best defensively with everyone but a frosh Olah being a plus defender.

There's no need for me to let go of BC, as I have stated that he should have been let go earlier if the administration wasn't going to support him (both with regard to facilities and operating on a 1 yr renewal which hurt tecruiting).

And even if BC had been the one to take the Cats to the Tourney first - whether that be the Juice, Shurna, Crawford and Coble team or if the Swop team had stayed healthy and eligible, I would have been fine with eventually departing with BC because there were limits to his system.

I like CC (which is why I had stated early, early on that don't think he would leave NU for even Dook), but with there have definitely been rough patches with his success.

How would you feel if there was another 5 year stretch of losing after Boo leavrs?

Don't think that's going to happen as think CC has really found his footing as a coach, so think a Tourney appearance (maybe 2 every once in a while) every recruiting cycle is a real possibility (which would turn CC from being a very good coach to a legend).

But also think there are other coaches out there who can achieve similar results.

So in your mind he went out looking for that 3/4 to build around?

Or maybe he just happen to land two top 100 recruits in those positions and had to maximize their use? Ultimately by making one of those a 5 with disastrous results?

I really think people underestimate how much HS recruiting is about getting the best players one can get, period.

 

[hdhntr1]

It’s not really a big decision for a message board chump to advocate for someone to be fired. Like, it doesn’t even matter a little. The firee will get paid and maybe my team will be better.


If somebody had said that Collins would bring in a defensive guru and stop subbing out his presumed top player in the first four minutes of game time, and if someone had said he would give Boo the ball and let him cook, and that he would give Nicholson minutes because defensive presence matters, then perhaps things would have been different. Collins has improved as a coach. It’s good!

(What would have happened last year if Young *had* stayed? Maybe no Nicholbombs. A significant threat gone from Boo’s driving game.)

It’s also not expected for a coach to become better at his job in year 8 or whatever.

To my credit, my final conclusion was that last season should have been CCC’s last chance, simply because Boo started to look the part of a star late in his junior year, and the two deserved a chance to do it together.

CCC would have been gone at 90 percent of P# programs prior to last season.

But NU is not 90% of programs. Those of you that think having success here is the same as anywhere else in the BIG so the coach should be held the the same standards are living in dreamland. The challenges to success at NU are much more difficult than any of those 90% that are not NU. The challenges at NU are unique. No one else has to deal with not even being able to talk to 90% of potential recruits and having to play in one of the toughest top to bottom conferences

 

[hdhntr1]

Coaching is not a constant - coaches often change philosophies, make good/bad assistant hires (as we saw with Fitz) over their tenures, become better coaches from their experiences, etc.

We have seen plenty of coaches who got fired from a gig early in their career, only to find success later as they grow as a coach.

We have also seen coaches get immediate success, but then hit a major nosedive.

The 5 yr losing stretch bwtn Tourney appearances was mediocre to say the least, especially when it wasn't like CC was starting all over.

He still had the core of his Tourney team returning and then Law, Pardon and Skelly in their prime.

CC, himself, stated that it wasn't the best coaching job from him and that looking back, he would've done things differently.

What was really inexplicable was CC abandoning the team/roster construction that led to the 1st Tourney appearance and becoming overly infatuated with building a team around stretch 3s/4s.

BC's last season was marred by losing Crawford and then later Swop, with also Hearn missing some time and Cobb's suspension.

A starting 5 of Cobb, Hearn, Crawford, Olah and Swop would have been the most balanced team BC ever had, and definitely the best defensively with everyone but a frosh Olah being a plus defender.

There's no need for me to let go of BC, as I have stated that he should have been let go earlier if the administration wasn't going to support him (both with regard to facilities and operating on a 1 yr renewal which hurt tecruiting).

And even if BC had been the one to take the Cats to the Tourney first - whether that be the Juice, Shurna, Crawford and Coble team or if the Swop team had stayed healthy and eligible, I would have been fine with eventually departing with BC because there were limits to his system.

I like CC (which is why I had stated early, early on that don't think he would leave NU for even Dook), but with there have definitely been rough patches with his success.

How would you feel if there was another 5 year stretch of losing after Boo leavrs?

Don't think that's going to happen as think CC has really found his footing as a coach, so think a Tourney appearance (maybe 2 every once in a while) every recruiting cycle is a real possibility (which would turn CC from being a very good coach to a legend).

But also think there are other coaches out there who can achieve similar results.

If you remember, we lost Baldwin as top assistant after that first tourney. Yes we had most of the team together that next year at Allstate but we had lost our glue guy and then the injuries came. But their are glue guys among coaches as well and it took a bit to find the new glue in both the players and coaches