When it comes to Willy, it’s
Does it matter who crafted the words? They ARE student athletes.
OSU in talks to join the SEC, replace Vanderbilt?
- Thread starter CatManTrue
- Start date
Does it matter who crafted the words? They ARE student athletes.
It’s becoming laughable that the argument has led to “there’s no value in a diploma”.
Secret at a public university is bad. Double secret is worse. However bad or worse have never stopped tOSU.
Don’t worry wolvie. My buddy said you can still expect to take your annual beatings during their new conference’s protected rivalry week.
There’s no real monetary value, hence it’s not true compensation. There is of course academic or educational value. But those are different things.
Not really. I'm fully in favor of free markets and employees in that market earning their worth. No question about it. And professional sports certainly is great example.
But the question here is whether collegiate sports constitute a true market at all and has legitimate employees.
I don't see college players as employees. Quite the opposite, in fact. I see them as students who are fortunate enough in their athletic abilities to earn a scholarship and a free ride to college. That's it.
They don't deserve to earn any money beyond that just because they happen to stand out and get more recognition than some of their other teammates. And therein lies a big part of the problem with this unfortunate happening.
So why do the head coaches and athletic directors get paid millions if collegiate sports neither represent a true market nor has employees?
UNC would never come. VT? Maybe…but I’m not sure I’d want them. I will say, if the B1G is serious about remaining a top tier conference, they need to join the recruiting game right now. As it is, it’s looking like everyone wants to join the SEC, and they’ll get to pick and choose. They won’t need to “trade”.
Their in lies the problem.Even though just about everyone knew that NIL’s were about to become part of college football no one is sure what the results will be.What may work in theory may not work in practice.How people react to this completely new tool or opportunity may well determine if you have a successful program.Will some teams band together or be torn apart.Human nature comes into play.One or two players making quite a bit of money others not so much.Getting an education is vitally important ,because most guys don’t go to the league,but still how people react can never be known before hand.Well I guess we are all about to find out.
SEC has less flexibility than you think. That’s why they need to oust Vanderbilt to make room for a power like OSU. OU and UT are easy additions but the question is who is a natural fit besides OSU. Clemson couid also replace Vandy but why would they leave the ACC?
My buddy said the B1G can’t poach from the ACC with the contractual changes post-Maryland’s departure unless a trade occurs, like what was mentioned.
So what’s left for the B1G to expand to 16 if my guy’s wrong and OSU stays? Iowa State? Temple? WVU? Coastal Carolina?
The pickings get slim.
Last edited:
It's pretty obvious that there has to be some structure and athletic department at universities to implement and manage the student teams. Adult supervision and management is absolutely essential to having intercollegiate sports. And these people obviously need to be paid employees of the school. There is no reason that they would do it for free.
But there is an enormous difference between the paid staff who implement the programs and the students who participant in them. There is no logic to equating the two groups. Yet, you and others continuously try make that argument, which is a non sequitur.
Those are excellent points. We'll see what happens, but I share your concern that this is going to do more to tear teams apart than to bring them together. Jealousies are inevitable. And this is all so unnecessary.
No it’s not.
Why is Fitz paid $5M+ to do his thing while his players make a pittance?
Why was our former AD so highly paid for doing work that a trained monkey could do while our football players face career ending injuries on every down?
There is a severe imbalance here. Thankfully the NIL and these conference changes will help reduce the gap, if not eliminate it entirely.
It has nothing to do with employee status. A private entity wants to pay an individual for services rendered and you’re against it. Seems pretty anti-capitalist me. Downright un-American to say that a person can’t earn money in this country based on who they are.
No, you are wrong again.
There is no imbalance whatsoever. Fitz is a university employee. He is paid to coach the football team. How much he gets paid is irrelevant. That's a matter of what the university thinks he is worth.
Students are not university employees. Quite the opposite in fact. They are actually university customers. Let me say that again to make sure you understand it. Students, all students, are university customers. Not employees.
And as such, there is absolutely nothing in the relationship that gives students the right to sell their NIL for a profit. In fact quite the opposite.
Students aren't being paid by universities for licensing their rights of publicity. They're being paid by third parties, and the universities/conferences/NCAA simply are no longer permit to conspire and collude to stop them.
NC maybe. Not so keen on them lately, but they do have mass a brand and market. Would they bail on the Duke rivalry, though?
It depends on how they achieved their fame and celebrity status to begin with. If they achieved it entirely on their own then I fully agree with you. They should be able to sell their NIL and receive money for it.
But if they achieved their fame and celebrity on the back of some university as a member of one of its teams then it's perfectly reasonable for that university to not allow the person to seek or receive individual remuneration.
I completely understand who is paying the students. And that is precisely where the problem lies.
Yeah. Good example. That's exactly why this is going to be such a big problem.
Perhaps I’m naive, but I’d be stunned if any of the North Carolina or Virginia schools left the ACC. BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Kansas, Iowa State and probably Oklahoma State all would leave their conferences to come here; with the possible except of Kansas and their basketball program, I don’t think any of these particularly move the needle for the Big Ten. Notre Dame and Miami, if they’d decouple from Florida State, would be the direction I’d look for cachet and new eyeballs. Can’t see us looking west.
Your arguments belie your stated understanding.
No one, anywhere, becomes an employee of anyone simply by virtue of licensing their name, image or likeness. They become a licensor in an independent contractor relationship.
You can like it or dislike it, but this is the one compromise position between actual employment, with unionization and collective bargaining, and collusive conduct that a very conservative Supreme Court says violates the law.
Either way, precisely zero of it has anything to do with whether students are customers or employees of their respective universities.
Because an individual is going to be able to earn money based on who they are? You must hate the Kardashians et al
I fully understand all of that about who is an employee and who is not. But that's not the real issue.
It's a moral issue that you don't understand. As I said previously this is all about the money. Money, money, money. A great big money grab. And a terrible thing to do to our youth.
Another red herring. Nearly every, if not every, football player who suits up in a college uniform is 18. A legal adult.
And, again, your argument is irrelevant. Kids under 18 shouldn’t be able to make money? They can and do all the time. A drama student shouldn’t be able to act in a play for money? A journalism student shouldn’t be able to write for a newspaper for money? A chemistry student shouldn’t be able to work in a lab for money? They can and do all the time. Why should athletes be treated any differently?
And the fact remains that they still are treated differently. The NIL rights have not changed the fact that NCAA athletes don’t get paid to play sports. Your entire argument is centered around the incorrect assertion that they do.
This has nothing to do with morals. Change is tough. I get that it’s scary. College football is fun and pure. Why change it? My guess is the top 1%, the Bryce Youngs, will make some real money, a lot of other people will make some pocket change, and most won’t make anything. Right now it’s new and shiny, so the sharks are circling. But the truth is that a meaningful number of the Bryce Youngs have been getting paid. Now we can just dispense with the fiction and put it out in the open.
It’s pointless to keep going around and around in circles on this topic. I’m probably not going to change anyone else's mind and certainly no one is going to change mine.
So I’ll just wrap up by saying that in my opinion paying student athletes for their NIL is a terrible development that will change college athletics and even affect the outcome of games. In essence, destroying college sports as we have known them for the past 100 plus years. And it’s totally unnecessary. When money becomes more important than principles and values then society is bound to suffer.
I’m done here. I’ve said my piece over and over again. Enough is enough already.
So I’ll just wrap up by saying that in my opinion paying student athletes for their NIL is a terrible development that will change college athletics and even affect the outcome of games. In essence, destroying college sports as we have known them for the past 100 plus years. And it’s totally unnecessary. When money becomes more important than principles and values then society is bound to suffer.
I’m done here. I’ve said my piece over and over again. Enough is enough already.
Last edited:
Nobody from ACC would join Big Ten if we got poached.
But it doesn't matter because nobody is leaving here.
I just can't see anybody leaving the ACC with 15 years left on that Grant of Rights.
ESPN will pay to make Texas/OU whole for 3-4 years of remaining Big 12 GoR but nobody else is getting that treatment.
Best strategy for Big Ten is not to panic.
And then think about adding some ACC schools later on in 6-8 years when the revenue gap is huge.
Virginia Tech is not an AAU member, so it would be a very hard sell to the B1G presidents on academic grounds.
UNC is an AAU member. If you can pry UNC away from the ACC, go for it. But Vanderbilt for UNC is not anywhere close to an equitable trade for the ACC.
Allow myself to quote...myself:
Big Ten wants elite programs. Kansas basketball, for better or worse, is elite. KC metro is growing, there's potential there for rivalries with Nebraska and Iowa. Kansas is an AAU. Our guy Travis Goff has some messes to clean up in football and basketball.
I still think ND and Miami would do more for the conference's overall profile, but of that first list, Kansas makes a lot of sense.
I just got off the phone with my buddy.
It turns out that OSU / OU / Texas talking to the SEC is just the tip of the iceberg.
BIG changes are coming. I was told the info is triple secret so I can’t share it just yet. But as soon as gives the word, I’ll let you know.
Suffice it to say, the B1G will becoming a lot easier to win. Good for NU if you look at it that way. More to come.
I called it yesterday. The B1G will become irrelevant if OSU leaves. The other prominent schools will follow to the super conference.
And yet I’ve heard from this very forum that a diploma has no value and that college sports needed to make this change because there are players who aren’t here to graduate.
There are two scenarios playing out behind the scenes. That is the most fun one to think about IMO and triple secret negotiations are underway.
The other likely scenario will probably leave the skeptics on this board happier. Not everyone, but hey that’s life.
But talks are underway. OSU is not happy with B1G “leadership”, especially with how Warren nearly bungled last season away.
The OSU, OU, Texas, Clemson, and SEC leadership are playing chess. The rest of the ADs are fumbling with their checkers. More to come about the New World Order as soon as I can share it. Maybe somebody else will hear similar and leak it first.
When you hear that from the B1G university presidents who actually get to vote on expansion, let us know.
