From the Trib last fall:
“He was projected to be taken in the late first round or early second round of the NBA draft but decided to return to school”
I have a hard time believing Kofi won’t go to the NBA.
Next Season
- Thread starter Catdude
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“He was projected to be taken in the late first round or early second round of the NBA draft but decided to return to school”
I have a hard time believing Kofi won’t go to the NBA.
Don't worry, you won't need to make that decision. The AD and above will take care it.
The value of a winning season is extremely diluted when we load up our OOC schedule with cupcakes every year.
I don't think a single person on here thinks a championship contending NU men's bball team is realistic at this point, but a lot of people seem to throw that out there as a strawman. Most of us are probably in the same boat as far as goals for the program (1 NCAA run every 4-5 years, competitive team the other years). I don't believe Collins has proven capable to get us there, nor do I believe that the NU job is so bad as to be unable to find a reasonable replacement for Collins. If Collins were truly doing yeoman's work in an impossible environment, he would remain well in demand for other job openings, good job openings. That does not seem to be the case.
If Collins were to leave NU, would he be a leading candidate for any top 40 P6 team? His most likely next stops would be as an assistant or at a smaller program to rehabilitate. I don't think that would be the case if he were viewed by ADs as a top notch coach that is bound by unfortunate circumstances at NU.
I didn't say anyone expects that, just that sure, we would all love that. What you say above is a reasonable expectation. I think Collins is pretty close to doing that, but again, has had ample time and not gotten there yet. And I have no argument for someone saying "hey, he's had 8 years and only gotten us to one NCAA tourney and nothing else even close". If he's fired at season's end, I'd get it. My point is that this the NU job is a hard job (we all know that) and it will be hard to get someone to come here that can not only take us to the level we want to be at, but also that would stay here long term if he accomplished it.
In summary, moving on from Collins may happen and if it does it might be a good thing. But I personally think it's more likely we'd take a step backwards. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try and find a different guy to take us to where we want to be, but just a "be careful what you ask for".
I honestly would be ecstatic if we got someone to come here who does such a good job that he is poached by an elite program. We shouldn't restrict ourselves to candidates that only want to stay here long term. If we become known as a program where young hotshot coaches come to springboard to an elite job, that would be great for us. Stability can come later.
No. But that's on paper, we'll have to see what actually happens with this underperforming group.
While I don't disagree that something is missing. I would put our talent level around a tie for 10th at best. Good for us but not at the level of other teams. I mean who is our talent better than? Not MSU, MICH, IND, PUR, IL, OSU, MD and WIS for sure and the rest are sort of a jumble with everyone at a similar level so we have no distinct advantage against anyone.
I will agree with you on Audige shot selection, Buie is a bit better than Audige's but still has low %. Likely they take as many shots as they do because they are the best at creating their shots
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I think he is just suggesting that both games were within a possession going down the stretch and if the more discipline actually made that kind of difference, wouldn't the potential be there to beat them twice?
That seems like a real reach... This was the comment...
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"So all we need is a bit more discipline and then we beat Illinois twice this year, with your far superior talent? Thanks for making my argument that we should keep Collins longer. He’s in these guys’ ears all the time about poor shot selection, and both Audige and Buie have significantly improved in that facet this year."
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It was a brontosaurus-sized distortion of what the Illini guy had written. Almost completely disconnected.
With a little bonus fantasy thrown in at the end.
Buie shot 36.3% in Big Ten games last year, he's at 36.4% this year .
Attempts up from 7.1 per 40 mins to 7.9 per 40 mins.
Audige has dropped from 36.7% to 26.1% on his 3 pointers in conference, with attempts increasing from 6.5 per 40 mins to 6.9 per 40 mins.
So both guys are shooting threes more often, Buie is the same percentage as last year and Audige has fallen off a cliff. I guess they're just ignoring Collins?
I get what you're saying, I just think we see the program a bit differently in terms of where it is right now. To me, we're nowhere close to that realistic sustainable peak you mention, and the backward step we risk by moving on from Collins just isn't that big a step. I don't foresee us regressing to the pre-Carmody era of getting run out of the gym every night with literally no hope for the future - we've invested way too much money into the program to allow that to happen. Beyond that, what's the worst case scenario? We lose most of our games and there's no interest in the program? That's not too far removed from right now.
If Cockburn and Curbelo returned, then holy moly Illinois will be such a huge favorite. Someone mentioned Iowa earlier but they are probably only returning two starters (P. McCaffery and Perkins).
Based on the latest mock drafts, here who is projected in the first 40 picks or so: Ivey (Purdue), Davis (Wisconsin), Murray (Iowa), Christie (MSU), Houstan (Michigan), Liddell (OSU), Jackson-Davis (Indiana), and McGowens (Nebraska). That seems like way more Big 10 guys than normal.
More BS from you, PWB. To set you straight (or try to, because you are as stubborn as I have ever heard a man, and I can’t believe I am wasting my time with this) - he said discipline was our issue. We’ve played all close games, as I think you know. The direct inference (a capability you seem to lack) is that he was attributing our losses to that - which implies, if that were are only issue, that we would (or at least very likely could) have beaten IL in our two close games with them (and beaten many other teams). Most all teams have better talent than us; compared to IL, it’s not even close. If we can win with more discipline (which we’ve seen to be better this year) from a few players (who were already outmanned by superior talent) alone, I’d say it infers that Collins is doing JUST FINE. We should lose to IL based on talent. Keeping us as close as we were after a terrible shooting first half (which is due to talent), on the road, with still inferior talent in the second half, was a GREAT coaching job. In my thirty+ years of watching NU, we would have lost by 25+ almost every time if we replayed that situation.
That story line is just a fine example of someone bending over backwards to describe how a run-of-the-mill loss proves that Collins is a good coach.
How about Illinois got a big lead, got sloppy, let us close the gap and then won when it mattered?
Will you at least admit that Audige is shooting significantly worse from three than last year?
That's totally fair and I think you've correctly identified why we aren't seeing this situation the same, and that's that I think we are a little closer to the sustainable peak I mentioned earlier. And it's hard to argue with what you are saying since we currently sit at 5-9 in conference and haven't won more than 6 games in conference since our tourney season five years ago. My only argument would be that we have lost a ton of close games- this has been the case for a few years now, but this year is a different animal and even more numerous. Close losses obviously are a far way from a close win, but you can see how close we are.
Here's what is funny to me. The football and basketball programs both have increased talent across the entire roster over the last ten years. I don't think anyone would disagree that we have more talent on the full rosters in both sports than we did in the past. And both the football and basketball programs have played in a lot of close games over the last ten seasons. The difference is that the football program has developed a knack for winning the majority of those close games while the basketball program has developed a knack for losing the majority of those close games. I don't think the talent level compared to our competition in either sport is that much different, but what a difference winning close games and losing close games makes in the identity of a program. This is nothing more than an observation- not trying to make any specific point.
We are playing the #1 team in the league at their place and you say it’s a run of the mill loss? Nuff said; no need to continue.
I seem to remember that the infamous Kevin O'Neill (what is it about coaches with that last name?) would bench a guy if he shot before EE touched the ball. Perhaps that is urban legend. So - who gets the ball instead of the two guys who actually seem to want it?
That 98-99 team was my first as a fan, and that was absolutely the right thing to do. I don’t care if they were down to JeffEsch, Allouche, Molnar, and asking Casey Cortez to enroll early — Just feed EE.
I don't mind Buie jacking up threes.
Its Audige.
He should be told that he is not allowed to shoot a 3 pointer until he has given the ball up at least once in the possession.
Even if that is overly restrictive, he'd have something to work with.
Yeah, Audige is just off with his shot this year and hasn't really found it. I know that Collins promotes "shooting through it", but I think it's time to give up on that with him for at least this season. He has shot us out of games a few different times. I'd rather have Beran taking shots than him at this point. I'm not one for saying "you have to do (this) before you shoot", but Audige definitely needs to be told sternly that he doesn't take a shot unless he's wide open, the shot clock is winding down, or he has a makeable mid-range jumper (a shot he's actually not bad at).
Shaking my head at your inability to admit you were wrong, despite irrefutable evidence.
Even I can do that.
But it does degrade the board when people are too proud to admit mis-statements (and correct them).
Otherwise we are dealing with false information campaigns. Propaganda.
And for what?
The 50 years of the program since I left NU beg to differ. Since the 1967/68 season (last full season for Larry Glass and last winning season prior to the tourney team) we have had exactly 1 winning BIG season and 1 .500 season. And for the vast majority of that time, the conference was no where near as strong as it is now. CCC has at least shown that he can bring in reasonable talent. Make the wrong move and it can get a lot worse in a hurry.As far as the sustainable peak, I would agree that we have not gotten there yet. But if we get to even 8 conference wins this year, that is tied for the second highest BIG win total since 1932/33
Run of the mill against the number 1 team in the league? Away? When they were at full strength for the first time in a while. Just another ho hum loss...
I agree with you on Audige. Shoots those jack up threes way to early in shot clock. While benching him a bit is warranted, hard to figure who can play his role which includes his D. He can be frustrating
Dan Bernstein on The Score would say (and probably still says), “If you’re a streaky shooter, that just means you’re a bad shooter.” I tend to agree with the premise.
Audige is good enough to shoot within the flow of the offense, but certainly not off the bounce, and preferably not before he’s worked the offense.
If you still think what I have said is wrong, even after two tries with you…and I’ll let others be the judge if I am degrading the board - GMAB.
This is what you wrote...
Chris Collins is "in these guys’ ears all the time about poor shot selection, and both Audige and Buie have significantly improved in that facet this year."
Do you really believe that? Its a false statement!
When he wasn’t telling some dumb obscure story about his experience at a Whattaburger that only he thinks his hilarious….
It's hard to compare eras, so my analysis/comment needs to be taken with a pillar of salt. At college basketball reference, you can sort by conf winning percentage. "number of wins" is misleading because there are so many more conference games now. 8-12, if he gets there, isn't as impressive as 8-6 when you were there.
Anyway, the tourney year was the 5th best conf win % since the 30s, and 21st best all time. Collins next best year was 2015-16 at 8-10, overall 30th best all-time, tied with 2 Carmody teams. This year, if we go, say, 8-12, will be about 40th best, clustered with some other Carmody teams and Rich Falk's only good year. I hesitate to say "let's just talk about this century", because then we go down the rathole of CCC vs BC. No thanks.
I've said it before, I am ok with an overall 500 record this year; however, does it represent a near-term peak (return to 5 conf wins next year) or a sustainable level? 8-12 isn't great, but with an occasional 10 win season coupled with the near-impossible task of winning a game in the BTT, I'm ok with averaging 8 wins. Right now, I feel like this is a near-term peak and we will be back in the doldrums soon. Hope I'm wrong.
So you are quibbling with Audige’s shot selection? He’s not where we want him, but is better, in my view.
I would argue that most of those 50 years really don't matter when talking about the modern program. We are in a much, much different place now: the "curse" is over, we have impressive modern facilities, and we're willing to pay competitive salaries. There's no reason to think that if we replace Collins we're suddenly going back to the Bill Foster era.
I'm not "quibbling"
His 3FG% has cratered from last season's 36.7% to 26.1% in Big Ten games.
His 2FG% is steady year over year (44.0% to 44.8%)
His FT% has improved from 52.9% to 67.9%
If his shot selection has improved, as you say, then he should never shoot from 3.
However, his attempts are up this year, so he's not holding back.
You mean the one where we won the same percentage of games that we're winning under Collins? Ugh indeed.
RIGHT??? I'm tired of this Animal Farm narrative from the Pro CCC people..."do you want Jones to come back?"
We've (as fans) been extraordinarily patient with the program. I'm ok with Collins for another year if we finish .500 (and anyway he's not going anywhere). But to act like he's some cut above the rest instead of the one-hit wonder he is, is just not a reasonable take. Now that we've got the Tourney melanoma removed from our face, let's be open to trying something else, if needed.
Sure we suck under Collins, but if we fire him, we may even start sucking.
I think about this A LOT.
Especially given the football team lost that identity in this past season.
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