I agree with most of what you say here, but what you call "a gimmicky offense" looks to me like what other teams in the B1G call "a system". Having "a system" is far from a negative in my book.
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I agree having a system is important. But our system under Carmody, which was designed to slow games down and limit possessions, was in place because our talent level was well below our competition.
Why'd they run it at Princeton? The talent level wasn't below the competition there.
Lots of things to criticize in Carmody's tenure at NU, but the system wasn't one of them. Motion principles that emphasize layups and three-point shots? That will never work with talented players.
And the 8-6 record in 67/68 by Glass was the last winning record. The tourney year, since it was above 500 in conference makes it the best conference winning % since 67/68 (actually the year before I arrived) We are talking more than 50 years.
Foster and Winter were both quality coaches with impressive resumes before they came to NU to shrivel up. Look, the Dark Ages in FB still haunt us. Fact is that many of the things that have haunted us during the past 50 years are still present. Some (like facilities) have been corrected but the underlying history, admissions, kids having to go to class and level of BIG overall are still there. We are not as far as a fall to Foster levels as you presume
It was a reasonable system that gave them some advantages against evenly matched opponents. And that was just enough to give them a leg up in their conference. They it helped in dealing with OOC opponents that were more talented but unused to seeing it. Problem was that in the BIG, everyone was more talented than we were (usually by a lot) so it might give us a few extra wins but it was not enough to get us beyond that levelWhy'd they run it at Princeton? The talent level wasn't below the competition there.
Lots of things to criticize in Carmody's tenure at NU, but the system wasn't one of them. Motion principles that emphasize layups and three-point shots? That will never work with talented players.
Expecting a system alone to get wins is a recipe for disaster. I know you know this, but a system is a organizational principle that acts as a foundation that the rest of the program builds from. Principles in the Princeton offense are used in college and pro programs all over. So, my only pushback is that the problems in the Carmody era (which there were many) weren't the system. It would be fantastic to have a really well defined system in place in Evanston. IMHO, one of the problems the program is currently facing is not really having one.
There have also been NBA teams that have used the Princeton offense to great success. Most notably the early 2000s Sacramento Kings, who had Pete Carril on the staff.Why'd they run it at Princeton? The talent level wasn't below the competition there.
Lots of things to criticize in Carmody's tenure at NU, but the system wasn't one of them. Motion principles that emphasize layups and three-point shots? That will never work with talented players.
Brad Sturdy, who is the basketball guru for IlliniGuys and who used to be the Illini Rivals guy, posted this week that Kofi is making as much this year as Ayo is making with the Bulls. Ayo makes $1.2 million. Sturdy is the most reliable Illini reporter. Very close to the program.Out of curiosity, where is Cockburn’s $$ coming from? His ‘inquiries’ contact is a gmail account.
Is he on local commercials? Can you send examples?
Color me skeptical, but also excited for the kid.
At the Illini Rebounders meeting last week, Underwood said that Kofi could go to the G-League and make $400,000 or he could come back and continue to make what he’s making here.
Kofi is a weird prospect. Doesn’t fit what the NBA does but is a dominant college player. If he doesn’t project to get drafted, his best financial option is to return to Illinois.
I would say that at some point, he may just want to move on from college. One analytic shows him to be the most fouled player in America. He may be tired of that.
I think it's understandable to be haunted by the Dark Ages, especially if you lived through them, but I don't think they're a particular problem now. Yes, we have challenges, especially regarding admissions. Yes, those challenges are close to unique among high-major programs. But the shadow of the darkest days is not hanging over anything. Current football recruits only know the Fitz era and know Northwestern as a consistently competitive program. Current basketball recruits only know the Collins years (and maybe the late Carmody era), and while we certainly haven't had a ton of success in those years, we've still been significantly better than we were in the Dark Ages. Recruits no longer have to see an arena with a dirt floor, nor do the coaches have to lie to them to keep them from seeing the locker rooms. Instead, they see state-of-the-art facilities. NU is in a much better place these days. We're a competitive Big Ten athletic department and we act like it. And we, as fans, can likewise expect more.
There are a number of fans who, after a season like last year understand that as much as we had improved, one bad misstep could take us back to that era of futility. Have the wrong guy as President or AD or have to replace Fitz and make one bad hire....
With BB, remember that it was about 50 years between winning (BIG) seasons. Yes we are in a better place with better facilities But again, the BIG is stronger and as we have seen in the past, one bad hire...
Kofi can also get a degree from a great school while earning real money. If he's not going to be a 1st round pick why wouldn't he come back? Graduating from U of I with a few hundred thousand in the bank is a hell of a start in life for a 22 year old.
Kofi would also continue to build his brand in the Chicago-area. I'm in favor of kids who have the opportunity to be one and done taking the guaranteed cash, but one downside is that fans and the community don't have the same connection with players like they used to. People will have been rooting for him for four years, even if Ayo can't get the Bulls to take flyer on him, he will have established himself in this market and should have plenty of opportunities.
Kofi could be a rock star in Hungary playing kosarlabda for Falco Vulcano. Matt Nicholson will join him in a few years after he wins the Naismith award.
He absolutely should return. He game doesn’t suit the NBA. He can dominate in the B1G and make more money. It’s the opposite of the one and done that people dislike. Go for it.
This is an unnecessary level of worry, and I am not a starry-eyed optimist. Even if NU makes the wrong coaching hire, they can always correct the problem and hire someone else. And the university board isn't going to hire a president who is actively hostile to athletics like in the past. The university is fundamentally different than it was in the Dark Ages and it isn't going to change back.
If we head into another football Dark Age, we won't have another winning season until 2044. Does that honestly seem at all likely to you?
It was also often said that that "system" helped keep our talent at a level far below our competition because they wouldn't want to come to a place with that kind of restraint on what the player could do. There are systems and systems and for BC's system to work... While it helped with lower talent, it would limit those with more
Guessing money means less to Nance than most kids given his family, This is where a strong NIL program at NU would be a good thing. If kids can make close to what they could playing in Estonia then they‘d be more likely to stay another year
He came back because in the end the word was he wasn’t going to be drafted. Not sure much has changed this year. The NBA doesn’t just draft you any more based on being 7 ft.
If he’s not going to be a 1st round pick (which I don‘t think he will be) I wouldn’t be shocked at all to see Kofi back. NIL makes those decisions to stay easier as well.
Oh really? I was there when they made the hires that basically put FB into the Dark Ages. Alex Agase had brought the program back up to respectability (two second place finishes in BIG) after the Parsegian departure (and he left because the President (Strotz)was anti sports and drove him out) Then they brought in Pont as head FB coach (Bad Enough) they then put in as AD as well and the result was helping to tank both FB and BB for decades.
We have just changed both the President and the AD and while they may be OK, we have not yet seen what they are about. Think it could not happen again? One bad hire could put us back there
Well not just being 7 ft. But a couple years ago, I saw somewhere that of all the people 7 ft or above, some ungodly % found employment in the league. Something like about 17% (vs 0.07% between 6'6" and 6'8"). Maybe it has changed a bit since then, but I would still guess it is pretty high.
NBA Draft: Is Being 7 Feet Tall The Fastest Way To Get Rich In America?
Every year, I watch the NBA Draft and its parade of young men who appear to have won the genetic lottery, or at least a sweepstakes for overactive pituitaries. And every year, I come away with the same conclusion: Thanks to pro basketball, being 7 feet tall is the world's [...]
www.forbes.com
And he ain't no average 7 footer
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"This article is more than 8 years old."Well not just being 7 ft. But a couple years ago, I saw somewhere that of all the people 7 ft or above, some ungodly % found employment in the league. Something like about 17% (vs 0.07% between 6'6" and 6'8"). Maybe it has changed a bit since then, but I would still guess it is pretty high.
NBA Draft: Is Being 7 Feet Tall The Fastest Way To Get Rich In America?
Every year, I watch the NBA Draft and its parade of young men who appear to have won the genetic lottery, or at least a sweepstakes for overactive pituitaries. And every year, I come away with the same conclusion: Thanks to pro basketball, being 7 feet tall is the world's [...]
And he ain't no average 7 footer
If that was the case he would have been drafted last year. The NBA finally learned from all the wasted high draft picks on guys like big country reeves and Tyler hansboroughWell not just being 7 ft. But a couple years ago, I saw somewhere that of all the people 7 ft or above, some ungodly % found employment in the league. Something like about 17% (vs 0.07% between 6'6" and 6'8"). Maybe it has changed a bit since then, but I would still guess it is pretty high.
NBA Draft: Is Being 7 Feet Tall The Fastest Way To Get Rich In America?
Every year, I watch the NBA Draft and its parade of young men who appear to have won the genetic lottery, or at least a sweepstakes for overactive pituitaries. And every year, I come away with the same conclusion: Thanks to pro basketball, being 7 feet tall is the world's [...]
And he ain't no average 7 footer
Being terrified of what may happen is not how you run a program or go through life for that matter. See high goals, do your best to reach them, and see what happens. The risk of failure is what makes achievement worthwhile.
That was 50 years ago. College athletics are so different now there's no reasonable way to compare them.
Given that the new president was most recently the chancellor at Wisconsin and currently sits on the NCAA Board of Governors, it would be quite a surprise if she secretly harbors a Strotz-like hatred of successful athletics.
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You sure seem committed to running a basketball program without organizing principles or identity. That's silly, but you be you.
The talent level in the Carmody era was low because Carmody was an indifferent recruiter. Bo Ryan ran a system full of restraints on how players ran offense, but he somehow was able take Wisconsin to 14 straight NCAA tourneys, 7 Sweet 16's, two Final Fours, and an NCAA title game. Amazing how he was able to do that without any talent wanting to come to a place with restraints.
While I think that particular hire is OK, all I am saying that we are one bad hire away. Do you think JON was a bad hire? If so how much damage could he do? And that is a lower level hire where it is easier to move on fairly quickly if necessary. At a higher level, it could be much worse. For example, say the AD became disillusioned with Fitz and brought in his guy who turned out to be a disaster. Do you see NU eating the contract? It could take a decade to recover and in that time, there might be a push from some wanting us to go Ivy League or maybe a push to get rid of FB because of head injury issues or the changing environment on NIL. Just saying a bad hire, even in an area that we feel has been successful could change everything. Hard to push back if there is not some success to base the push back on.
Just saying while you feel the programs are safe, I am saying we sort of live on the edge. We remain in a position that one bad hire could wreck things. Making sure that we don't hire the wrong guy at NU is probably more important at NU than other programs. For example, a bad hire at IL might make things difficult but they can recover from it. NU does not have that luxury. Where would we be if BIG did not develop BTN and the sharing basis that we operate on? Luckily that buys us a little room but I don't think it is as much as people think as things change more and more favoring bigger programs
I'm no fan of Kofi, but comparing him to either of those guys is a little dubious.
Hansborough was about Ryan Young' size.
Reeves was Kofi's size, but slow. Still, he managed to play 6 years in the NBA, averaging over 24 minutes per game each season, averaging 12.5 ppg for his career. He was literally carried off the floor on a stretcher in his last game and never played again.
I'd be surprised if Kofi doesn't play in the NBA.
As I said, maybe it has changed a bit but probably nothing dramatic. For the most part it probably still holds.
He will still likely make it into the NBA. It did not say they went out of HS. And it often takes bigs a bit longer to develop. Last year the guard that now plays for Chicago was more the focus but now with him being in NBA, focus is more on Cockburn
I do think JON was a bad hire, yes, and the immediate and obvious defensive regression from 2020 to 2021 illustrates that. My point isn't that we can't make bad hires, or that we can't have painful periods where we have bad records. Of course we can. We've been living through just such a period in basketball since the tournament season. But there's a big gap between "being bad for a while" and "the Dark Ages." I think being worried about the former is perfectly legitimate; I think the latter is something that would involve a number of factors beyond simply making a bad hire or two. I suppose head trauma and NIL could be among those factors, but those issues will have to be addressed no matter how good we are.
(Since you mentioned BTN, we should also note that the B1G will soon sign a new media rights deal that will hugely increase the already large amount of money NU is getting from the conference.)
All that said, I think where we both agree is that if NU decides to replace Chris Collins, they'd better consider their options first and then make a serious effort to find a good candidate to replace him, because a bad hire could damage the program.
The problem is his game (other than being a huge human) isn’t suited for the current NBA. He doesn’t pass very well. His shooting range is very limited. He’s great in college where he can just post up a smaller guy a few feet from the basket, turn around, and score. There is a reason he hasn’t left college yet, the NBA feedback process for him hasn’t been good.
There is a set of players who are very very good in college but not in the pros.
How many records does Hansborough hold at NC? He made some nice $$ sitting on the end of an NBA bench, but he was largely worthless in the NBA and he had more range than Kofi has dreamed of
The NBA likes big guys who at least have a mid range game. If not, they still like them if they are rim protectors. Kofi does not fit either. He’ll get some chances but he won’t have a career in the NBA.
It’d be terrible if the NU program dealt with fan disinterest, road team takeovers, lots of losses, questionable recruiting momentum, and an inability to capitalize on facilities investment.
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