OT: Baseball Free Agents
- Thread starter Hungry Jack
- Start date
Nothing? No one?
I know, I’m a dick. But Corbi is a pompous arse that gets his high horse days - and I have the patience to wait for mine.
Scoreboard. {drops mic}
Wow. Check out the Brewers.
The Inexorable Conquering Brewer Machine, ie ICBM, continues its blitzkrieg of the final month of the season. They are now 20-4 in September. They have won 7 straight, and 11 of 12. They have outscored their weakling foes 57-17 over those 12 games. They have gone from 7.5 games back to knocking on the Cards' back door.
It reminds me of Anton Chigur in No Country for Old Men: A robotic, indefatigable force of inexorable annihilation; a cruel metronome that tricks you into thinking you have a choice, an opportunity to bargain, a chance that God may save you. He's lying.
This is Cormac McCarthy at his coldest and finest. He must be a baseball fan.
The Inexorable Conquering Brewer Machine, ie ICBM, continues its blitzkrieg of the final month of the season. They are now 20-4 in September. They have won 7 straight, and 11 of 12. They have outscored their weakling foes 57-17 over those 12 games. They have gone from 7.5 games back to knocking on the Cards' back door.
It reminds me of Anton Chigur in No Country for Old Men: A robotic, indefatigable force of inexorable annihilation; a cruel metronome that tricks you into thinking you have a choice, an opportunity to bargain, a chance that God may save you. He's lying.
This is Cormac McCarthy at his coldest and finest. He must be a baseball fan.
But ready for season record bet next year? You will have to spot a few games as you guys are coming off about 15+ win advantage.
Just got back to this thread. Are you serious about Hoerner? Lots to complain about the Cubs as a Cubs fan but Hoerner is not it. For a kid who by all accounts was rushed into service and needed a little more time in the minors, his play has been a shiny bright spot in an otherwise pathetic stretch run. Why don't you take his 66 at bats and project them out over a full season and tell me you wouldn't take those stats. A .288 BA, a .790 OPS, 3 home runs, 15 RBIs in 66 at bats all with a low strike out rate of 12%. He has done all of that while playing a very respectable major league shortstop, a position that many said he couldn't play at the Big League level. Wrong! If you can't see that this kid has a very bright future and is one of the few reasons Cubs fans right now should be excited about next year, then I can't help you.
Last edited:
Anyone else find this hilarious? Maybe when I get to work, I’ll line up the lineage of Corbi posts on this kid.
I do believe he kinda contradicted himself when he said he wasn't "ready" when he previously said Hoerner was considered to break camp with the team
Yeah, nice try but not accurate. You can go back in this very thread to confirm I concurred with the view espouse by The Atlantic writer that had Nico not been hurt last year he had a shot to break camp with the team this past spring. I also said his subsequent injury this year made it unlikely he would be ready until next spring. Happy to say he is ready now. In his cameo appearance he has proven he can hit MLB pitching for average, hit in the clutch, hit for some power and play a good major league shortstop. Several of these capabilities were previously in doubt by his detractors and support my original contention that Hoerner was a better pick than Madrigal. Isn’t that how this discussion got started?
The goal posts haven't just been moved, I think they may have disappeared.
Enlighten me smart guy. Where were the goal posts set according to you? I just reread every post I made on this thread and I don’t think the goal posts have moved one inch.
Okay, point for you. I didn't go back and look and forgot about his injury.
Better pick? I'd agree. Better player? We'll find out.
Trick question: there are no goalposts in baseball.
Madrigal will pile up the hits. The quality of the hits is what concerns me. Really hope he drills a ton of gaps and learns to get just some lift under the ball
Last edited:
Why is that critical? If he can hit for a high average, move runners, steal 20+ bases, and field his position as well as just about anyone, he brings value. Jose, Eloy, McCann, Moncada, Robert, Anderson and TBD free agent will supply plenty of power. Sox could have 4 legit base stealers too in Anderson, Robert, Madrigal and Moncada. This won’t be a station to station club like on the North side. Offense will not be the issue next year, pitching will be too young.
I'm not saying he's gonna be a bad player, and everything you mentioned he does, he will be fine at. I just think his ceiling is somewhat limited. I hope I'm wrong but I would have preferred someone with more star potential (Cough, Kelenic, cough) at 4.
And speaking of Kelenic, I coached against him 3-4x and he's the most electrifying player I've ever seen in HS. Was incredible all the way around. The Sox scout I work with told me he'd take him 1-1
You've been very clear in saying that you "don’t think it’s an accident that he is the first player from his draft year to reach the majors", that you think he's "a much more valuable player than a 2nd base only singles hitter", and that "he is capable of being a .275-.285 hitter, with 20 HRs and 20 steals every year. If I am right, I consider that a super talented player." From what we've seen so far, he's below average offensively and probably won't stick at SS, and now you're saying that he wasn't ready. To me, that's a very different take. But I like this idea of turning our kinda pointless debate into predictions, so let's predict who, between Hoerner and Madrigal, will accumulate the higher WAR over the next two seasons.
That's already our bet. I haven't gone back and looked at what the actual bet was, but I believe it was 500 plate appearances if my memory serves correctly. What the stakes were, not sure.
And he's the first player from his draft class to reach the majors kind of by default. He was a high floor collegiate MIF. Those guys are supposed to fly through the system. He might not have been had Javy not gotten hurt, however
From what you have seen so far he’s below average offensively and won’t stick at SS?what player have you been watching? What part of his stats scream below average hitting middle infielder to you? Those stats indicate an above average hitting middle infielder and projected out over 500 at bats would yield better offensive statistics than what I projected for him. As far as his play at SS is concerned, he won’t stick at SS because Javy Baez plays for the Cubs. His play over over the last 16 games proves that he could be at least an average defensive shortstop at the Big League level. Solely on that basis and assuming everything else is equal, his proven ability to play SS at the major league level in addition to 2nd and perhaps even CF makes him a more valuable player than Madrigal, who by everyone’s assessment is a 2nd base only player. If, as I believe, Hoerner also turns out to have more power while hitting for high average, then I think the argument is moot.
Last edited:
I watched him play just about every game. I was very impressed with his defensive actions at SS. Now you say he's a great athlete, I'd say he's a slightly above average athlete by MLB standards, but has the hands/footwork/instincts to make up a lot of the gap between being a little above average athlete and a supreme one.
Also, his HR/FB rate was sky high. That regresses over time. Average doesn't matter and nobody really looks at it anymore. There are other barometers that say he was about average or slightly below offensively over his 60 AB or whatever cup of coffee.
That said to go from AA straight to The Show and be average or even a little less is exceptionally impressive in and of itself. He'll be a good player, but I don't think he'll ever be a star or even an all star really.
Calling him a high floor player is revisionist history with the benefit of hindsight. No one was characterizing him that way pre draft. At best he was projected as a second or third round pick before the Cubs surprised everybody with the pick.
Last edited:
If he was a projected to go in 2nd or 3rd round he was only drafted in the 1st because he'd take less money, which means you can allocate more money to other picks that might be tougher to sign due to college commitments. Teams have a finite amount of money they can spend in the draft. If there was no draft cap then teams would take the best player available 100% of the time, regardless of position. He was an under slot pick
I don’t recall ever calling him a “great athlete”. I said he was more athletic than Madrigal and I stand by that statement after having watched him at the big league level. I also stand by my belief that he has 20 HR potential at the big league level. I don’t think this kid consistently hitting 15-20 HRs per year with a little more big league experience and physical maturity is much of a stretch.
I'd agree with this take on Madrigal. That's why I hated the pick. He needs to hit a ton of doubles and swipe a ton of bases at a high clip for me to not care about taking him 4th overall. Go look up Jared Kelenic, he's going to be the truth. THat's who I would have taken
Hoerner signed for a $2.724 million bonus, full slot value. It was also rumored after the draft that the Billy Beane and Oakland As were poised to take Hoerner with their second pick in that draft.
Got me again. Didn't look up what he signed for. But in the end, I still think you're overrating how good he's going to be. Solid enough big league regular? Sure. That's it though. We'll see on Madrigal
And I don't feel like going back and looking what the original bet was. Let's make it again right now, and here's my wager:
7 categories: AVG (even though it's an archaic stat), OBP, OPS, wRC+, SB, hits and fWAR
We'll call Hoerner's 2019 season a wash and start with 2020. Assuming there's no injuries (in which case that'd render the bet void) then whichever player has more "wins" in each category wins the bet. Each player has to have at least 500 plate appearances.
If you'd like to amend categories let me know.
$100? We can do Venmo to pay
And let the record show I only want to do this for the sake of gambling. I'm still somewhat bearish on Madrigal. Just think this would be fun for next year
I would love to introduce you to my business. You would probably be a king maker for me.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
UPDATE: Ta’Quan Roberson was NOT offered by NU- Latest: CoralSpringsCat
-
-
-
FB RECRUITING Visit sealed the deal for new Northwestern LB commit Josh Veldman
- Latest: CoralSpringsCat
